JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

This bullet has no certifiable chain-of-possession prior to its being in the possession of FBI agent Elmer Todd.

And for that reason, if I were Oswald's lawyer, I would have gotten this "evidence" thrown out at trial.

This has been answered before. All of the listed people were interviewed.

Lets look at the chain of custody.

* Parkland maintenance employee Darrell Tomlinson finds the bullet by complete luck. He gives the bullet to OP Wright. When shown CE 399, Tomlison says "it appears to be the same one" but he "cannot positively identify the bullet".
* Parkland personnel officer OP Wright gives the bullet to Richard Johnsen. When shown CE 399, Wright "stated that it looked like the one he gave to Johnsen on 11/22/63, but he could not positively identify it."
* Secret Service agent Richard Johnsen gives the bullet to James Rowley. When shown CE 399, Johnsen "stated that he could not identify that slug as the one he
received from Wright and gave to James Rowley".
* Secret Service head James Rowley gives the bullet to Elmer Todd. When shown CE 399, Rowley "advised he could not identify this bullet as the
one he received from . . . Johnsen and gave to . . . Todd".
* FBI Agent Elmer Todd marks his initials on the bullet. Elmer Todd gives the bullet Robert Frazier. When shown CE 399, Todd positively identifies it "from initials marked thereon".
* FBI firearms expert Robert Frazier, when shown CE 399, positively identifies it because "It has Frazier’s mark on it."

Obviously, the Parkland employees didn't know the way to be able to positively identify an object was to make a distinctive mark on it in a way that does not interfere with lab examination of the evidence. I don't have enough information to tell if the Secret Service should have, The FBI did.

And as repeatedly pointed out, the stretcher bullet (CE 399) was conclusively matched Oswald's rifle and to the bullet fragments taken from Connally's wrist (CE 842).

[Patrick Differ]

Hi Frank-

The Laser Scan and Digital Twin technology used by Knott Engineering. Online Photos that show the School Book Depository and large X painted in spots in the public domain and the Garrison Appeal for access to Xrays and photos dated January 31, 1969.

The Appeal from 1969 challenges the alignment in terms of geometry and anatomy. I believe there will be a reference to Hood College for this document.

If you can't find this stuff let me know.

Just a note. The issue of alignment is an old issue. The sketches Humes used in his testimony to describe these wounds was done by a sketch artist and not based on xrays or photos. According to Humes they were not granted access.

By not tracing the bullet trajectory the Single Bullet Theory was born. The mis step by Humes created it because it did not prove actual trajectory.

There are photos of guns pointing out the 6th Floor window down to the Street. These photos were apparently created for the Public to show alignment and ease of target access. However they actually reveal and support the acute angle reality of the location on the 6th floor. Knott illustrates that.

Connally would have to be sitting 10 inches to Kennedys left for the Single Bullet to hit under Connallys right armpit.

Arlen Specter needed a Single Bullet to make Oswald the killer.
His theory is disproven.

Cheers

[Patrick Differ]

Frank & All- to access info i speak of ..Google

Knott laser JFK
Dealy Plaza JFK X Photos
Garrison Appeal for Autopsy Xrays January 31 1969

There is another Laser Company calked Lidar that also concludes what Knott does. Dated June 2024.

Cheers

[cobalt]

At the time Oswald ordered the rifle, JFK wasn't even planning on going to Texas.

I think Fiver stated this to argue against the possibility of there being anything like a conspiracy to shoot JFK in Dallas. After all, why 'frame' Oswald in advance of a visit that has not even been organised?

But like many comments that appear on this site lecturing assassins as to how to carry out their trade, it simply lacks practical knowledge. A JFK visit to Texas had been mooted before March 1963 although confirmation was only announced around the middle of the year. JFK had visited Dallas in 1960 prior to his election, travelling in a open car down Main Street, so it could be anticipated that he would do something similar prior to his 1964 campaign.

The decision to kill JFK, as I understand it, was born out of the Bay of Pigs fiasco and cemented by his agreement with Khrushchev over Cuba in 1962. Planning assassinations a year or two ahead is not unusual. In 1981 the IRA took the decision to assassinate Margaret Thatcher, then PM of Great Britain, in response to her decisions regarding hunger strikers inside the prison system. However the actual attack- the bombing of a hotel where she was staying in Brighton- was only carried out in 1984 and was unsuccessful although a number of her colleagues were killed. IRA preparations had included observing closely Conservative Party conferences in 1981 and 1982 with various, and changing, IRA personnel involved. Despite the IRA having a few 'touts' in its ranks, one of whom was temporarily in charge of the eventual bomb placer Magee, the security services did not seem aware of the threat throughout three years' planning.

[Herlock Sholmes]

What do you mean when you say “as I understand it,” Cobalt? It sounds like you are basing it on evidence? I can’t see a single piece of evidence. All that we get presented with is a list of ‘possible’ motives which leads some to a ‘group of shady conspirators’ who might (possibly - in their opinion) have benefitted for Kennedy’s death. This can’t be considered evidence of anything.

If a Carpenter murdered someone from the Forestry Commission would we assume that his motive was something to do with the wood working industry? So why do we have to assume that this was a politically motivated murder? Kennedy was a politician of course. Oswald had political interests/belief certainly. We still shouldn’t assume that the two are linked though. Caution is needed. We wouldn’t make such an assumption in other crimes so why do we do it in this case? I think that the answer to that particular question is hardly difficult to arrive at. People need the political angle as a ‘plot theme’ for this particular murder. What about ‘disaffected, mentally ill loser looking to show the world that he was good enough and smart enough to kill the world’s most powerful man? That’s just as good an explanation and it actually fits what we know about Oswald.

Then:

”But like many comments that appear on this site lecturing assassins as to how to carry out their trade.”

Not just assassins though - conspirators too.

These people don’t suddenly step outside of human existence. Reason, logic and common sense have to apply to them too. You believe that these people acted as no sentient human beings would have done. How can you hold this view?

What you and others are suggesting is that the plotters weren’t bothered if the assassination succeeded or not. They weren’t bothered either about the possibility of being revealed as part of a plot to kill the President. This isn’t worthy of a seconds consideration. They would have wanted the best assassin using the best, untraceable equipment. They would have had the fewest amount of people in-the-know and they would certainly have wanted this entire operation to be as simple as possible (reducing the number of things that could go wrong) They would have provided a well organised escape for the assassin. And they absolutely 100% certainly wouldn’t have left 1000 highly difficult jobs still to do post-assassination for it to have even a chance of succeeding and going undetected. Then they had to hope that in the following years not one single person of this cast of a 1000 blabbed (and people are so good at keeping secrets aren’t they)

This doesn’t make the kind of conspiracy suggested involving Oswald unlikely…it makes it utterly impossible. It’s not a case of it being ‘doubtful’ it’s a case of 1000% certainly COULDN’T (under any circumstances) have occurred. Anyone that says it is would simply be wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong again.

Conspiracy theorists constantly want to have their cake and eat it. They want a group of super, high-level plotters who have control over every aspect of American life (police, military, Secret Service, CIA, FBI, legal profession, medical profession) and yet….they are just a bunch of village idiots who knock up a plot so convoluted that no spy thriller writer would touch it with a barge pole. One that leaves a thousand ways that the plan could crumble and fail (with some of these options revealing those plotters to the gaze and judgment of the public). One that requires huge slabs of luck. One that requires untraceable forgeries and faking. One that gets otherwise decent men to betray their country.

Again….absolutely impossible. CT’s have set out with a belief that appeals to them - big bad government plot to kill the golden haired hero and in the process they frame the poor, powerless ‘little man.’ Then they proceed to see everything through conspiracy goggles.

There was no conspiracy. Like Martin Luther King, like RFK, like Gandhi….killed by one unhappy man. No goulish, feeble, inadequate conspiracy theories are required.

The case was solved in 1963. It remains solved today. Nothing will change. Oswald will never be posthumously exonerated, and not because of any silly conspiracy fantasy, but because he was 100% certainly a double murdering traitor who has gained a quite distasteful fan club over the years. It reminds me of those women who fall in love with serial killers. Each to their own I guess.

[cobalt]

If a Carpenter murdered someone from the Forestry Commission would we assume that his motive was something to do with the wood working industry?

There are a few points missing from your analogy. First of all the victim is actually the Head of the Forestry Commission. And secondly, the arrested suspect had a track record of criticising the Forestry Commission and had previously defected to a rival organisation. Add to that the threats that had been made publicly to the Head of the Forestry Commission and yes, I would assume there was a political motive to the crime. Especially if the Deputy Head of the Forestry Commission, who was in charge of the area where the murder occurred, has now replaced his boss. If the new Head of the Forestry Commission organised an inquiry into the murder, selecting the committee members, then I would judge its conclusions accordingly.

According to the WC there were three murder attempts engaged in by Oswald. The final one, the murder of Tippit, is clearly non-political if carried out by Oswald. But the other two persons in his sights (again this is the WC narrative) were, despite being high profile political persons, not shot for any political reason either. I don't want to lecture disgruntled malcontents as to who they should shoot, but most persons so disposed rarely select a political target.

I'm not aware of any 'fan club' available to those who reject the WC findings. I am aware however of a political duopoly within the USA which supports the foreign adventures of American imperialism and glories in its conquests (whilst drawing a veil over its military defeats in Vietnam, Afghanistan and latterly Ukraine.) Its ability to control narratives is obvious and naturally it attracts the the most selfish in society (whose motive is greed) and the weakest (who fear its wrath and wrap themselves in national flags.) I believe that the present day form of US imperialism would be less pernicious today had JFK managed to serve a second term.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Killing Kennedy’s achieved nothing accept killing Kennedy’s. No ‘group’ would have bothered. This was the work of an individual. The plan is the plan that an individual would use because it shows poor planning. Far too many ‘off chances’ are required. He relied on the ‘off chance’ of no one seeing him with a rifle. He relied on the ‘off chance’ that no one came onto the 6th floor. That he left his ring and $170 (all of his money) proves that he expected not to return. There’s no escape plan - maybe he expected to have been captured or shot at the scene. Everything screams one man expecting to be caught. No group of conspirators would have taken on a job like this and even if they had there’s just no way that they would have done it like they are alleged to have done.

Personally, I consider this absolute proof that there was no conspiracy. Oswald killed Kennedy and he did it alone. All shots from the TSBD.

[cobalt]

Killing Kennedy’s achieved nothing accept killing Kennedy’s. No ‘group’ would have bothered.

There were about half a dozen groups considering killing Kennedy. That doesn't mean they would have seen it through. But one group did and achieved a great deal. This group showed that the so called 'leader of the free world' could be executed in public if he defied the will of powerful economic interests. (In America they are called 'oil magnates' or 'tech entrepreneurs' whilst in Russia they are called 'oligarchs.') So democracy was now declared negotiable outside the ballot box. The corporate state has flourished ever since and controls much of the political process through monetary influence in the forms of donations. Donald Trump, who is clearly part of the corporate state but belongs to its nationalist wing, has recently survived two assassination attempts. Curiously, there seems remarkably little media interest in the political background of his attackers who have been discounted, true to form, as lone gunmen.

The second achievement, outside of foreign policy, was the curtailment of truth to power. Acceptance of the WC may have been justified in the minds of those who felt it allowed America to move on from the events of Dallas but in the longer term it has undermined public trust in the fourth estate. Modern media, owned by multi millionaires, barely pretends to speak truth to power these days. It shouts a lot to disguise its impotence.

That he left his ring and $170 (all of his money) proves that he expected not to return.

It 'proves' no such thing. And it can't have been all of Oswald's money since he had money on him when arrested. Various explanations have been offered as to why Oswald left money and his ring. Unless you had a clear explanation of Oswald's own account- which you do not have- then you are in no position to prove anything either way.

It is as facile a point to make as some CT saying that JD Tippit made an emotional farewell to his son on that day which proves he was 'badgeman' or connected to the conspiracy. Neither of these actions have been explained by the actors themselves so no proof is available, only supposition.

[Herlock Sholmes]

He changed his visit day for the first time ever.
He won’t engage in any Kennedy talk initiated by Marina.
He leaves his wedding ring.
He leaves a large sum of money (at least ‘nearly’ everything he had) and he wasn’t exactly any easy guy to part from his cash.
He carries a large parcel to work.
He didn’t wait for Fraser as he normally did but dashed inside.

So we need 6 individual excuses for these behaviours in Oswald.

Or, we can say “if it quacks like a duck and swims like a duck….”

This is a man who is up to something and doesn’t expect to see his wife again for a considerable time.

Plotters can’t have ‘arranged’ for Oswald to have behaved like this. But he did….on the very day that Kennedy was murdered.

Add the rifle and it’s game over.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There were about half a dozen groups considering killing Kennedy..

Do you have the minutes of the meeting where this intention was voiced Cobalt? Or is it just an assumption based on a rumour?

[Herlock Sholmes]

The second achievement, outside of foreign policy, was the curtailment of truth to power..

.

There has certainly been a curtailment of truth. It has been caused by years of politically and financially motivated conspiracy theorists who have kept this going. Liars like Garrison. Lane, Stone etc. All charlatans.

[Herlock Sholmes]

60 years of conspiracy theorists tormenting the Kennedy family with goulish fantasies and totally illogical conspiracies.

Justice will only be served when every single conspiracy theorist accepts that they are wrong. Most are wrong honestly…many aren’t. This is an industry that we are talking about. The biggest bandwagon in town.

Long past time to end it. Oswald’s gone…he escaped justice. All the records have him down as a double murderer though and that won’t change. It’s the best that we can hope for in the interests of proper justice.

[cobalt]

Do you have the minutes of the meeting where this intention was voiced Cobalt?

As far as I am aware groups plotting assassination do not minute such information in their meetings. Even the Wansee Conference in 1941, which advocated genocide, was a little circumspect when discussing such matters. The July 1944 plotters against Hitler left nothing written so far as I recall.

There has certainly been a curtailment of truth. It has been caused by years of politically and financially motivated conspiracy theorists who have kept this going. Liars like Garrison. Lane, Stone etc. All charlatans.

The finances of these named persons are but a spit in the ocean compared to those who have reaped riches since the assassination of JFK. That applies to other sceptics such as Bertrand Russell and Mary Ferrell. As regards their political motivation I would understand that as refusing to be cowed or bribed into acquiescing to a coup d'etat in a democracy. I think that is a political position worth defending.

[Fiver]

As far as I am aware groups plotting assassination do not minute such information in their meetings. Even the Wansee Conference in 1941, which advocated genocide, was a little circumspect when discussing such matters. The July 1944 plotters against Hitler left nothing written so far as I recall.

As I have said, a competent Conspiracy wouldn't have left records of their crime. And if they did make that blunder, they've had over 60 years to erase inconvenient records. Yet every time a new bunch of records are released, Conspiracists assume there will be something that proves the Conspiracy.

[FrankO]

Hi Frank-

The Laser Scan and Digital Twin technology used by Knott Engineering. Online Photos that show the School Book Depository and large X painted in spots in the public domain and the Garrison Appeal for access to Xrays and photos dated January 31, 1969.

The Appeal from 1969 challenges the alignment in terms of geometry and anatomy. I believe there will be a reference to Hood College for this document.

If you can't find this stuff let me know.

Just a note. The issue of alignment is an old issue. The sketches Humes used in his testimony to describe these wounds was done by a sketch artist and not based on xrays or photos. According to Humes they were not granted access.

By not tracing the bullet trajectory the Single Bullet Theory was born. The mis step by Humes created it because it did not prove actual trajectory.

There are photos of guns pointing out the 6th Floor window down to the Street. These photos were apparently created for the Public to show alignment and ease of target access. However they actually reveal and support the acute angle reality of the location on the 6th floor. Knott illustrates that.

Connally would have to be sitting 10 inches to Kennedys left for the Single Bullet to hit under Connallys right armpit.

Arlen Specter needed a Single Bullet to make Oswald the killer.
His theory is disproven.

Cheers

Hi Patrick,

I found all the stuff - thanks for the info, especially the Knott page. I am only going to react to the photos and video created by them, as going into everything would mean a good deal of reading up and that would take too much time. I don’t want to get sucked back into that.

What struck me when I first saw the pictures created for the video was that Connally seems to be leaning forward somewhat (which I don’t think is correct - I think that, by that point, he had started to lower his right shoulder) and that there’s something unnatural with his shoulders and upper back in that he might be described as ‘broad shouldered’ and having somewhat of a humpback. It actually made me think of Peter Sellers as inspector Clouseau trying on his ‘humpback disguise’ – but I digress.

Furthermore, when I look at Zapruder frames 222 to 230, I see Connally appearing from behind the freeway sign in frames 222 & 223 with his shoulders at about the same level, meaning that an almost horizontal line can be drawn from shoulder to shoulder (right shoulder very slightly lower than the left one). To me that means that at that point he was turned further to his right than the Knott picture representing frame 225 shows. At frame 224 a line from shoulder to shoulder is slightly less horizontal: Connally’s right shoulder has move down somewhat, while his left shoulder remains more or less at the same level. In frame 225 the line is clearly less horizontal still: his right shoulder further down and his left shoulder has moved up and this continues in frame 226. From 226 to 231 he stays in that position.

I agree that the way Knott depicts frame 225 would disprove the SBT, but the president was undoubtedly hit before frame 225 and a few frames earlier would not be an unreasonable suggestion. Therefore, if they were hit by the same bullet, also Connally would have been hit a frame (or two) earlier, when he was turned more to his right.

This, of course, is only based on the Zapruder film and the video and pictures created by Knott, but that’s what I see.

Cheers,
Frank