JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[GBinOz]

Here' a report on Tippet shooting:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11126#relPageId=56&search=Radio_log

[GBinOz]

Here is the link to that radio log:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10692#relPageId=7

There's some very interesting information. Is the ricochet that is reported at 12:37 as having hit someone the one that hit Tague? There is a lot of talk about the shots coming from the third or fourth floors.

[GBinOz]

J. Edgar Hoover did not believe that Brennan was the source of Sawyer's 12.45 bulletin.

Commission Document 291 - AG Texas Radio Log Channel II: 12:43pm 9-531
"The wanted person in this is a slender white male about thirty, five foot ten, one sixty five, carrying what looked to be a 30-30 or some type of Winchester"

The Winchester 30-30 was a lever action rifle.

[cobalt]

I've never said anything different. What we don't know for sure is what Brennan said at that time, specifically before 12.45.

Brennan's responses at the WC- not remembering how many were in the line up and if any were coloured men- undermined his own testimony. As did his reluctance to commit himself initially to identifying Oswald. He didn't need any assistance in discrediting his testimony.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There’s a lot of hard work being done to try and discredit Brennan. He immediately went to a police officer saying that he’d seen a man with a rifle on that floor. But hey…lucky guess I suppose.

[cobalt]

Why are you assuming Brennan's 1987 account is more accurate than his 1963 account?

For two reasons. First of all Brennan's interactions are partly confirmed by Sorrel who I assume was aware of the 1987 book, yet never contradicted Brennan's version of events.
Secondly, J. Edgar Hoover did not believe that Brennan was the source of Sawyer's 12.45 bulletin. If this is the case then someone other than Brennan was offering descriptions, a person who was never later identified.

I think you questioned earlier Hoover's knowledge of what happened. Fair enough, he wasn't there at the time. But he knew a damn sight more than either of us or indeed anybody on this blog about what happened on November 22nd, 1963. If you question Hoover's knowledge of the case then it follows logically that you have to question all of the information that was laid before the WC by his organisation, the FBI.

[Fiver]

I think that can be dismissed. In the 1987 account Brennan described at least three separate occasions on which he spoke to Sorrel in the course of the day. But I don't doubt Brennan gave an account to several LE officers including Sawyer.

Why are you assuming Brennan's 1987 account is more accurate than his 1963 account?

[Pcdunn]

For a change-- RFK Assassination Documents Released

Today (April 18, 2025) I saw on the news that among previously-sealed documents in the case of Robert Kennedy's murder was:
A piece of paper with a memo in Sirhan Sirhan's handwriting: " RFK must be disposed of"

Exactly what this political opinion meant to the assassin may be up for debate, but it at least seems to offer some pre-meditation.

[cobalt]

The simple explanation is that Brennan did not have a perfect memory and gave the description to Sawyer, but misremembered the name as Sorrel

.

I think that can be dismissed. In the 1987 account Brennan described at least three separate occasions on which he spoke to Sorrel in the course of the day. But I don't doubt Brennan gave an account to several LE officers including Sawyer.

Mr. SAWYER. Well, during the entire period of time that I was there, I would venture to say between 25 to 50 different people had come up with information of one kind or another.

A hectic, confused scene as we can all imagine and Sawyer was experienced enough to realise an early description of a suspect might prove important. He had about 10 minutes to do this and presumably collated what he considered the best evidence at the time.

But lets say that the person who gave the description to Sayer was not Howard Brennan. That means there were two different men who saw a "slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165".

Not according to Brennan in the 1987 account as I explained previously. His description was of a man aged 25-35, less than 6 feet tall and with receding dark hair. The other details broadcast by Sawyer must have come from someone else.

Which means there were two witnesses that gave a description matching Oswald, making it even more likely that he was the shooter.

At first glance that would seem to make the Brennan identification stronger. But it throws up a few problems as well. When did Brennan add the supporting details about slender build and approximate weight? We know he put these in his police statement but he did not mention stating these extra details to police at the scene in his 1987 account. So when did he remember them? And what happened to the receding dark hair? My suspicion is that Brennan did not provide these to Sawyer in time for the 12.45 bulletin but rather they were provided to him, possibly by other witnesses or police officers, afterwards. That's the most even- handed explanation I can come up with. The other alternative will be known to you.

[Fiver]

If you read my posts more carefully you would not keep repeating points that are not being contested.

Your most recent post assumes that the witness providing the information relayed by Sawyer was Howard Brennan. Sawyer himself could not confirm this, and J. Edgar Hoover believed the source was not Brennan.
In the 1987 account Brennan remembers describing the man on the 6th floor to Forrest Sorrel, but he could not have done so before 12.55 by Sorrel's testimony.

The simple explanation is that Brennan did not have a perfect memory and gave the description to Sawyer, but misremembered the name as Sorrel. Sawyer was dealing with dozens of witnesses and did not take any of the names himself. Hoover wasn't there. The accounts of Brennan, Barnett, and Sawyer agree with each other.

Mr. LIEBELER - You were still back near the intersection of Elm and Houston?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; I was back where No. 8 is then. That was probably 2 1/2 minutes after the last shot was fired. About that time, my sergeant came up from this way, from the north of Houston Street and asked me to get the name of that building. I broke and ran to the front and got the name of it. There were people going in and out at that time. I ran back and told him the name of it, and about that time a construction worker ran from this southwest corner of the intersection up to me and said, "I was standing over there and saw the man in the window with the rifle." He and I and the sergeant all three broke and ran for the door. I kept the man there with me. The sergeant ran to the back to make sure it was covered. I kept the man there until they took him across the street to the courthouse. I was there until 3 o'clock, at the door there with one of the other officers, J.D. Smith.

Mr. SAWYER. I set up a command post in front. The various officers were bringing up different witnesses who had seen various things, and I saw that this was quite an involved situation. It was so many of these people that had information, that I knew I didn't have time to take this information down, and by this time several deputy sheriffs were standing there, and one of them, I think he was a supervisor, I had his name at one time, I can't think of it now, was there, and he offered the use of an interrogation room of Sheriff Decker's office, I think he said, for interrogating these people.
Mr. BELIN. That is located down the street a little bit there?
Mr. SAWYER. Well, it is catty-corner across the street.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. SAWYER. It is southeast across the street from the Texas School Book Depository, at least from the corner, and so we set up a group of officers and deputy sheriffs who were to take charge of the witnesses and take them over to see that affidavits were taken from them. They were more or less an escort service so the witness wouldn't get away.
And then as our detectives began to show up, I sent them over to the Sheriff's Office to assist in taking these depositions or affidavits.
Mr. BELIN. How many witnesses were there around there during this period of time that you talked to?
Mr. SAWYER. Well, during the entire period of time that I was there, I would venture to say between 25 to 50 different people had come up with information of one kind or another.

But lets say that the person who gave the description to Sayer was not Howard Brennan. That means there were two different men who saw a "slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165". Which means there were two witnesses that gave a description matching Oswald, making it even more likely that he was the shooter.

[cobalt]

If you read my posts more carefully you would not keep repeating points that are not being contested.

Your most recent post assumes that the witness providing the information relayed by Sawyer was Howard Brennan. Sawyer himself could not confirm this, and J. Edgar Hoover believed the source was not Brennan.
In the 1987 account Brennan remembers describing the man on the 6th floor to Forrest Sorrel, but he could not have done so before 12.55 by Sorrel's testimony.

[Fiver]

Read my earlier post. Brennan in his ghost written account (1987) said no such thing. He made no comment on race, height, weight or clothing when he first approached police at 12.35. Everything else was added afterwards, possibly after Oswald was actually in custody.

Here's from the police radio.

Dispatcher Yes, 12:44 p.m.
9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) The type of weapon looked like a 30-30 rifle or some type of Winchester.
Dispatcher 9, it was a rifle?
9 A rifle, yes.
Dispatcher 9, any clothing description?
9 About 30, 5'10", 165 pounds.

And from testimony.

Mr. BELIN. Now the next time that No. 9 appears is at what time?
Mr. SAWYER. Immediately after 12:43 and before 12:45.
Mr. BELIN. What did you say then?
Mr. SAWYER. "The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5 feet 10, 165, carrying what looks to be a 30-30 or some type of Winchester."
Mr. BELIN. Then the statement is made from the home office, "It was a rifle?"
Mr. SAWYER. I answered, "Yes, a rifle."
Mr. BELIN. Then the reply to you, "Any clothing description?"
Mr. SAWYER. "Current witness can't remember that."

[cobalt]

Howard Brennan saw the shooter describing him as a "white male, approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, 165 pounds".

Read my earlier post. Brennan in his ghost written account (1987) said no such thing. He made no comment on race, height, weight or clothing when he first approached police at 12.35. Everything else was added afterwards, possibly after Oswald was actually in custody.

We know that Brennan, by his own admission, was a nervous man. I think that is a fair assessment of his character.

[Herlock Sholmes]

So 7 people saw a person-rifle in the 6th floor window George.

How many saw a gunman elsewhere?

[Herlock Sholmes]

You are misremembering. Oswald's dark jacket was found in the first floor lunch room. Oswald leaving without his jacket is, at best, extremely odd if he was innocent.

Thanks Fiver. It’s entirely possible though that Oswald took off his jacket whilst firing but my main point to George would be that in a darkened window it would have been his light shirt that stood out to anyone looking in.