JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

This is all about our interpretation of the words "to flee". Obviously he didn't run, because that would have attracted attention and therefore suspicion. He left the building fairly briskly, without delaying, and his actions demonstrated clearly that he was trying to cover up his movements and that he had no intention of returning. What exactly he was trying to do is something of a mystery, but he wasn't returning to work.

And Oswald didn't take his "curtain rods" with him.

[cobalt]

Originally posted by cobalt View Post
Your link to the UN in December 1942 makes no reference to Death Camps which I specified in my original post.

Either you haven't read the link or you haven't understood it.

You are struggling to grasp the concept of a death camp just as the UN understandably did in late 1942.

By death camp I was referring to the six sites specifically built to exterminate prisoners by use of poison gas. I was not referring to people perishing due to atrocious conditions inside labour camps, nor to mass executions by shooting as was carried out in the USSR. The latter two activities were not unknown previously in the conduct of war: the industrialisation of mass execution- inside camps specifically built for that purpose- was.

This meant that architects, masons, plumbers, chemical suppliers of the gas and bureaucrats all knew about the existence of these camps but that their existence could be effectively hidden so long as the Nazi regime controlled territory and the narrative of the war. A massive conspiracy to conceal a grisly truth which the UN could not fully comprehend at the time.

Had the Battle of Stalingrad not been won by the Red Army, triggering the collapse of the Nazi regime in Europe, then it is unlikely that the full horrors of these death camps would be as well known as they are today. As Orwell put it: 'He who controls the present controls the past.' Despite different political flavours the aggressive imperialism of the US Empire- focused on Vietnam at the time of the JFK assassination- continues unabated to this day therefore it still controls the narrative. Or at least it controls the official narrative.

[scottnapa]

It's not the way I describe it. It's the way Guy Russo, a pro-Conspiracy Consultant for Oliver Stone's JFK describes it.

"[I]When one first stands behind the picket fence, he/she is struck by a number of sensations. First, there is no clear shot at the middle lane of Elm Street [where the limousine was] until the instant of the head shot, allowing for no earlier shots her or tracking of the moving target. It turns out that the intended victim is obscured by road signs and a white retaining wall about ten feet in front of the fence.

GUS RUSSO did work on the FRONTLINE JFK show.
A very different story told in Oliver Stone’s movie where John Newman was the prime influence on Oliver Stone’s movie. Also, Fletcher Proudy & Dick Russell.
Wikipedia:
“Russo was part of a team of researchers that worked on the 1993 Frontline Lee Harvey Oswald documentary, Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?, for PBS.^[2][3] He is the author of Live by the Sword: The Secret War Against Castro and the Death of JFK, a book which states that Lee Harvey Oswald alone killed the president in retribution for Kennedy's policies toward Fidel Castro and Cuba.^[1]“

Perhaps Guy Russo is a conspiracy writer but Gus Russo is not. Gus Russo is a conspiracy debunker.
….as for his comments on the fence. I have stood behind the fence. It was many years ago, standing next to me was Jim DiEugenio, it may have been his first standing behind the fence, as we moved away from the corner edge we found the spot and spoke about it. The shooter on the grassy knoll would not have fired from Russo’s position , he would have moved six inches to the right. This is the debunking problem. Russo has not disproved a shot from the knoll. He proves his agenda to his satisfaction.
He saw what he wanted to see. There is nothing to learn from Russo’s commentary on the grassy knoll.

[Fiver]

Your link to the UN in December 1942 makes no reference to Death Camps which I specified in my original post.

Either you haven't read the link or you haven't understood it.

"The attention of the Belgian, Czechoslovak, Greek, Jugoslav, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norwegian, Polish, Soviet, United Kingdom and United States Governments and also of the French National Committee has been drawn to numerous reports from Europe that the German authorities, not content with denying to persons of Jewish race in all the territories over which their barbarous rule has been extended, the most elementary human rights, are now carrying into effect Hitler's oft-repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people in Europe.

From all the occupied countries Jews are being transported in conditions of appalling horror and brutality to Eastern Europe. In Poland, which has been made the principal Nazi slaughterhouse, the ghettos established by the German invader are being systematically emptied of all Jews except a few highly skilled workers required for war industries. None of those taken away are ever heard of again. The able-bodied are slowly worked to death in labor camps. The infirm are left to die of exposure and starvation or are deliberately massacred in mass executions. The number of victims of these bloody cruelties is reckoned in many hundreds of thousands of entirely innocent men, women and children.

The above-mentioned governments and the French National Committee condemn in the strongest possible terms this bestial policy of cold-blooded extermination. They declare that such events can only strengthen the resolve of all freedom-loving peoples to overthrow the barbarous Hitlerite tyranny. They reaffirm their solemn resolution to insure that those responsible for these crimes shall not escape retribution, and to press on with the necessary practical measures to this end."

[Fiver]

Elizabeth Moorman who was photographing on the side of this debris field had her film confiscated and she was NEVER interviewed.

(Minor self-correction)

Mary Ann Moorman gave statements on November 22 to the Dallas Police and the FBI. She was also interviewed by Jim Featherston of the Dallas Times Herald before she left Deally Plaza. That afternoon, Moorman was interviewed by WBAP TV and by KRLD radio. That night, Moorman was interviewed by WFAA TV.

That's six interviews, not zero.

[Fiver]

Ive walked all of Dealy Plaza twice and the way you describe the grassy knoll area is incorrect..

It's not the way I describe it. It's the way Guy Russo, a pro-Conspiracy Consultant for Oliver Stone's JFK describes it.

"When one first stands behind the picket fence, he/she is struck by a number of sensations. First, there is no clear shot at the middle lane of Elm Street [where the limousine was] until the instant of the head shot, allowing for no earlier shots or tracking of the moving target. It turns out that the intended victim is obscured by road signs and a white retaining wall about ten feet in front of the fence.

An even more compelling problem was driven home during the filming of JFK. I was fortunate to be able to stand near the camera as this scene was reenacted. With the street crowd added as it appeared on the day of the shooting, it became clear that, insofar as the first two shots are concerned, a grassy knoll shot was also obstructed by the crowd that lined the sidewalk. The assassin would thus [have] had to shoot through the white wall, the road signs, and bystanders to get to the President."

[Fiver]

None by the WC. Thats zero. And she never got her film back.

Four interviews on the same day is four interviews. There never was any film because Moorman used a Polaroid, which was self-developing.

And Moorman got her photos back.

[Fiver]

Correct, which is why he was driven to the theatre.

No Conspiracy would have any reason to drive Oswald to the Texas Theater. Oswald was observed entering the Texas Theater and he got there on foot, not by car.

[Fiver]

That would depend on whether the conspirators wanted him shot or wanted him to escape surely.

If the Conspirators wanted Oswald shot, they were incredibly inept about it. Getting him into a car would be perfect if they wanted Oswald dead. You just drive him into the middle of the desert, shoot him there, and bury him in an unmarked grave.

[Fiver]

80% of the American Public believes it was a Conspiracy by LBJ, Hoover and Dulles.

Reality is not an opinion poll.

And your numbers are still wrong. 50% of Americans believe in a conspiracy. 28% believe Oswald acted alone. 22% didn't know.

And of those who believe there was a conspiracy, 43% believe the US government was involved, 33% believe that the FBI was involved, and 19% believe that LBJ was involved.

[Fiver]

LBJ became the new Administration and his pals Hoover and Dulles helped him control this outcome. The WC has too many flaws to be believable.

If you think LBJ, Hoover, and Dulles were pals, then you know nothing about any of these men. Dulles gained nothing from the JFK assassination. He or Hoover would have gained far more by betraying a Conspiracy than they would have by supporting it.

[Fiver]

The same bullet that allegedly first hits JFK and Connally including hitting bone is barely deformed. Yet the same bullet that is also jacketed hits Kennedy in the back of the head and not the side as seen in Zapruder film. That bullet fragments into hundreds of pieces, causes pressure in the brain, blows out the side of the skull and causes a debris field to the right and to the back left and behind to the left. All the while Kennedys head is thrown violently to the back and left by a high velocity jacketed bullet. This bullet is also magical and defys the basic Laws of Physics.

The only bullets to defy the laws of physics are those proposed by the Conspiracists. For example, a Grassy Knoll bullet would have to curve in midair to miss the street sign and the spectators, curve again to strike JFK in the side of the head, then curve a third time to exit the back of his skull. It has to leave bullet fragments inside the car that match bullet fragments inside JFK's head and match the rifling on bullets fired from Oswald's rifle. And having exited the back of JFK's skull, it has to evaporate without striking anyone or anything behind the limo. It has to come from a rifle that sometime emits clouds of smoke and sometimes doesn't while sometimes being silenced and sometimes not being not silenced. It has to be wielded by a man who can hit a target that he cannot track and who can completely disappear while carrying a rifle across open ground in broad daylight in an area surrounded by security and civilians.

Back in the real world:

The stretcher bullet shows the deformation that you would expect from striking bone sideways while tumbling. Analysis using the actual positions of JFK and Connally shows that a single bullet could have caused all of the wounds.

The Zapruder film shows that JFK was struck in the back of the head, not the side. So do the skull Xrays. Any bullet passing through the brain would cause a pressure wave and the skull fractures also support a bullet striking JFK from the rear. Eyewitness testimony and photographic evidence show that the majority of the debris field was projected towards the front of the limo.

No bullet strikes with the force needed to cause the back and to the left movement. That's Hollywood physics and has been disproved by Mythbusters. OTOH, a pressure wave going through the brain is going to cause a lot of random neurons firing, leading to muscle movements.

[Fiver]

So where is the bullet that first hits JFK? Where are the bullet fragments from Connally? We dont know because the Limo is confiscated by Johnson and sent to Detroit and scrubbed. What? Cant talk about that.

We can't talk about that because it isn't what happened.

CE842, the bullet fragments from Connally's wrist, match CE399, the stretcher bullet. CE843, fragments taken from JFK's head, match CE 567, the bullet fragment found on the front seat, and CE840, the fragments found on the rear floorboard. And those are just the larger fragments found. They also found CE567 and CE841.

[Fiver]

The bullet holes in Kennedys shirt and Connallys jacket are entrance wounds that were used to help create the magic bullet hoax. One major problem besides Humes not tracing the JFK neck/back wound but the bullet fails Connally. Because unlike JFK, Connallys doctor traced the bullet that entered his back and exited his chest. It had tunneling which made Yaw from a tumbling bullet impossible. Not only that, the entrance wound itself was smaller than the length of the bullet. So the bullet went through the back near the right shoulder and exits the throat as a round hole, tumbles and turns and hits Connally on a downward angle and forms an oval smaller than the bullet ( still in almost perfect condition) shatters the 5th rib before exiting and then enters the wrist shattering the bone, exiting the wrist and hitting the thigh

JFK's clothing shows "bullet wipe", showing that the hit to his upper back was an entrance wound. You admit that the would to Connaly's back was an oval, which is proof that the bullet was tumbling when it struck him. The wound being smaller than the length of the bullet shows that it was not exactly perpendicular with Connaly's back when it struck.

The shot is possible.

[Patrick Differ]

A crossfire is an incredibly stupid idea if you are trying to frame a lone patsy. Firing at a moving target is an incredibly stupid idea unless you have no other choice.

The Dal-Tex building, like the TSBD, are good firing positions. The Grassy Knoll is a bad firing position that requires the shooter to escape unnoticed carrying a rifle.

"When one first stands behind the picket fence, he/she is struck by a number of sensations. First, there is no clear shot at the middle lane of Elm Street [where the limousine was] until the instant of the head shot, allowing for no earlier shots or tracking of the moving target. It turns out that the intended victim is obscured by road signs and a white retaining wall about ten feet in front of the fence.

An even more compelling problem was driven home during the filming of JFK. I was fortunate to be able to stand near the camera as this scene was reenacted. With the street crowd added as it appeared on the day of the shooting, it became clear that, insofar as the first two shots are concerned, a grassy knoll shot was also obstructed by the crowd that lined the sidewalk. The assassin would thus [have] had to shoot through the white wall, the road signs, and bystanders to get to the President." - Guy Russo

Ive walked all of Dealy Plaza twice and the way you describe the grassy knoll area is incorrect. There is a clear shot behind the fence before you hit the white wall. Plenty of room. It is perfectly aligned. All one has to do is walk to the parking area and pull off in a car. Or walk behind the building and escape.
There were few people in Dealy Plaza as seen in Zapruder and Nix.