JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[GBinOz]

I'm afraid the Altgens photo disagrees with you. Some of the crowd might be looking towards the Daltex building. The Secret Service agents are looking towards the Book Depository. The photo also shows the windows of the second floor of the Daltex building, which are either empty or full off a large number of non-gunman people.

I think you are being mislead by the compression effect of Altgens telephoto lens. Altgens was about 60' from the limo when he took the #6 shot, but the limo was about 170' from the entrance of the TSBD. I was referring more to the height of the people's gaze, rather than the direction. The agents are turning toward the sound, but the source is far further than appears in the photo due to the compression, and they are not looking up. You might note the open window just below the African American guy sitting on the stairs. There is conjecture that a shooter was firing from this broom cupboard through that window.

[Fiver]

My opinion is that the Secret Service men, and many of the crowd of onlookers on both the left and right side of the photo, are looking for the source of a gunshot. It is interesting that none are looking up, but more towards the Dal-Tex second floor level where it is conjectured was placed a gunman.

I'm afraid the Altgens photo disagrees with you. Some of the crowd might be looking towards the Daltex building. The Secret Service agents are looking towards the Book Depository. The photo also shows the windows of the second floor of the Daltex building, which are either empty or full off a large number of non-gunman people.

[Fiver]

I think we have to assess the likelihood of the wallet captured on TV actually belonging to Officer Tippit.

I would place the likelihood of that as extremely low indeed. Since the patrol car's number and an ID badge identified Tippit as the driver, the wallet was of limited evidential value.

Therefore the wallet, which was clearly of interest to the first officers on the scene, belonged to someone else.

That is supposition plied of supposition, not evidence. According to a reporter who filmed it, the wallet belonged to Tippit. According to Robert M Barrett, speaking two decades later, the wallet belonged to LHO. No other account supports Barrett's much later claim.

[Fiver]

ou're correct, the WC made no mention of the wallet, and later the DPD denied its existence. However, Capt Westbrook of the DPD examined the contents of the wallet, and found two IDs, and asked FBI Special Agent Bob Barrett if he had heard of Lee Harvey Oswald or Alex Hidell. Barrett replied no. If the wallet was found on Tippit, as you claim, this makes it even more interesting.

I did not claim that the wallet was found on Tippit, I stated that it was found at the scene of Tippit's murder and initially believed to belong to Tippet.

The first time Barrett is recorded as saying the wallet was Oswald's was in 1983, two decades after the murder. It's not mentioned in any of Barrett's written reports. Barrett also claimed to have been the one who took the gun away from Oswald, so clearly Barrett's memory was far from perfect.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Everything you say there is wrong - this is obvious to anyone who reads Markham's testimony.

Here is what I actually said:

Markham stated that Oswald did not resemble Tippit's killer, and that she had never seen him before he appeared in the line-up.

(# 2533)

Here is what Markham testified:


Mr. BALL. Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in the line-up?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. You did not? Did you see anybody--I have asked you that question before did you recognize anybody from their face?

Mrs. MARKHAM. From their face, no.

Mr. BALL. Did you identify anybody in these four people?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I didn't know nobody.

Mr. BALL. I know you didn't know anybody, but did anybody in that line-up look like anybody you had seen before?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.

Mr. BALL. No one of the four?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No one of them.

Mr. BALL. No one of all four?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.


Everything I wrote is not wrong.

Everything I wrote is correct.

[Fiver]

According to the Warren Commission's star witness, Helen Markham, the man leaned on the open near window of Tippit's car and he and Tippit seemed to have a friendly conversation.

She said Tippit did not seem angry but seemed calm.

Does that seem like the behaviour of two people who did not know each other?

I see you selectively quote Markham.

Mr. BALL. Then what happened?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I didn't think nothing about it; you know, the police are nice and friendly, and I thought friendly conversation. Well, I looked, and there were cars coming, so I had to wait. Well, in a few minutes this man made--

So Markham thought that "the police are nice and friendly", not that Tippit was friends with the man who shot him.

Would Tippit have looked calm if he thought that the assassin of President Kennedy had just rested his arms on the open window of his police car?

Benavides disagreed with Markham. Markham said "The policeman calmly opened the car door, very slowly, wasn't angry or nothing." Benavides said that Tippet "had his hand on the door and kind of in a hurry to get out, it seemed like."

Would the assassin of President Kennedy have deliberately got that close to a policeman if he sensed that he suspected him of having committed the assassination?

I'm pretty sure Oswald didn't think he could outrun a police car.

And by the way, immediately after giving that evidence, Markham stated that Oswald did not resemble Tippit's killer, and that she had never seen him before he appeared in the line-up.

Everything you say there is wrong - this is obvious to anyone who reads Markham's testimony. She mentions Tippit appearing calm on page 307.

Then, on page 310, Markham discusses the lineup.

Mr. BALL. Later that day they had a showup you went to?
Mrs. MARKHAM. A lineup?
Mr. BALL. A lineup.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How many men were in the lineup?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe there were, now I am not positive, I believe there were three besides this man.
Mr. BALL. That would be four people altogether?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe that is correct.
Mr. BALL. Were they of anywhere near similar build or size or coloring?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, they were all about the same height.

Page 311.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.
Mr. BALL. You recognized him from his appearance?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I asked--I looked at him. When I saw this man I wasn't sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.
Mr. BALL. When you saw him?
Mrs. MARKHAM. When I saw the man. But I wasn't sure, so, you see, I told them I wanted to be sure, and looked, at his face is what I was looking at, mostly is what I looked at, on account of his eyes, the way he looked at me. So I asked them if they would turn him sideways. They did, and then they turned him back around, and I said the second, and they said, which one, and I said number two. So when I said that, well, I just kind of fell over. Everybody in there, you know, was beginning to talk, and I don't know, just--

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize the man from his clothing or from his face?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Mostly from his face.
Mr. BALL. Were you sure it was the same man you had seen before?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I am sure.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

While the timing is tight, Oswald could have gotten to the location and shoot Tippet.

But why?

Why would Oswald have made a superhuman effort to get to the scene of the Tippit shooting except to satisfy his accusers?

What would have been the point of the alleged assassin's rushing to the spot where Tippit was shot, unless he had a rendezvous with him?

[Fiver]

I don't know what you mean by hitching a ride in a police box.

How about a silver DeLorean traveling 88mph?

The Wayback Machine?

The Guardian of Forever?

You appear to be unable to explain how Oswald could have arrived at the scene of Tippit's shooting in time to shoot him.

You ignoring what I said does not change the fact that I said it.

While the timing is tight, Oswald could have gotten to the location and shoot Tippet.

As opposed to the supposed alibi which Burroughs gave a couple decades later - that Oswald arrived at the Texas Theater before he left his rooming house.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Roberts' and Benavides' testimonies, if the times given are accurate, make it unlikely, but not impossible, for Oswald to get to the Tippit murder scene in time.

Roberts' and Burroughs' testimonies contradict each other, with Burroughs claiming Oswald arrived at the Texas Theater several minutes before Roberts said that Oswald left the rooming house.

I take your point about Burroughs, but I didn't mention him - and what he said was not said in testimony.

I was referring to Benavides, not Burroughs!

Markham gives Oswald even less time than does Benavides.

Even if it was humanly possible for Oswald to have got there in time to shoot Tippit, why would he have done so, unless to keep an appointment with him?

[Fiver]

I refer you to my # 2495, # 2506, and # 2511.

Taken together, Roberts' and Benavides' testimonies leave Oswald insufficient time to get to the scene of Tippit's shooting .

The same goes for Markham's.

Roberts' and Benavides' testimonies, if the times given are accurate, make it unlikely, but not impossible, for Oswald to get to the Tippit murder scene in time.

Roberts' and Burroughs' testimonies contradict each other, with Burroughs claiming Oswald arrived at the Texas Theater several minutes before Roberts said that Oswald left the rooming house.

[GBinOz]

What are the secret sevice men looking back at ? Tha man in the background could be LHO ?

Hi Fishy,

There's a lot of controversy about that "Doorman" figure, but it's generally considered to be Billy Lovelady. But check out this article on the "Prayerman" figure in a frame of the Wiegman film:

http://prayermanleeharveyoswald.blogspot.com/2016/06/

My opinion is that the Secret Service men, and many of the crowd of onlookers on both the left and right side of the photo, are looking for the source of a gunshot. It is interesting that none are looking up, but more towards the Dal-Tex second floor level where it is conjectured was placed a gunman.

Cheers, George

[FrankO]

Hi Frank,

It appears in the Altgens#6 that some of the agents in the follow-up car are looking at Kennedy, and my question would be, if Chaney wasn't looking at Kennedy, what was he looking at that was more important than the President being shot. My guess would be that he was mistaken about his position at the time.

My friend, Glen, was born 10 years after the assassination and is completely disinterested in the subject. But he is always interested in discussing matters photographic. Unfortunately my attention is diverted at present, as it appears that the two operations I recently had for cancer have evidently not provided closure. I'll address some of your issues after I get a chance to talk to Glen.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

Don't worry about addressing my issues, just focus on getting better! That's much more important!

So, I wish you all the best for now!!

Cheers,
Frank

[FISHY1118]

Hi Frank,

While not disputing what you have presented about Chaney, it appears to me that he is looking BACK at Kennedy. He did state that when he saw the President was shot he rode forward to the lead car to report it. Perhaps that is an explanation?


There is no doubt that the Altgens #6 is a major piece of evidence, there just appears to me to be some anomalies. I have a friend who is a professional photographer and he is going to go through my concerns to see if they can be explained by telephoto compression, as what I am seeing in the Altgens #6 is contrary to my experience using a 105mm short telephoto. Alternatively, perhaps Altgens was mistaken or misquoted on the focal length of the telephoto that he used?

Cheers, George

What are the secret sevice men looking back at ? Tha man in the background could be LHO ?

[GBinOz]

In a television interview he stated that he was riding at the right rear fender when he was looking back to his left, so he couldn't have been looking back at the president, although, again, it might seem so at first glance.

It would be interesting to know what your friend (who's, hopefully, as unbiased as can be ) has to say.

Cheers,
Frank

Hi Frank,

It appears in the Altgens#6 that some of the agents in the follow-up car are looking at Kennedy, and my question would be, if Chaney wasn't looking at Kennedy, what was he looking at that was more important than the President being shot. My guess would be that he was mistaken about his position at the time.

My friend, Glen, was born 10 years after the assassination and is completely disinterested in the subject. But he is always interested in discussing matters photographic. Unfortunately my attention is diverted at present, as it appears that the two operations I recently had for cancer have evidently not provided closure. I'll address some of your issues after I get a chance to talk to Glen.

Cheers, George

[DJA]

JFK.DC.1991.BluRay.1080p.DUAL.DCRG