JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Patrick Differ]

McClelland was there in the heat of the moment, surrounded by Secret Service, FBI and Mrs Kennedy trying to save a mortally wounded President. Mrs Kennedy told Clark that she knew he was dead. Of course he was, his head was blown off.

And getting to the truth of who and unfortunately how that happened only counts when some detail is obviously taken as some reason to no longer attempt to get at the truth. Wherever that leads. It would be like deciding that the First of Ten Commandments is wrong so why look at the next Nine?

So in the turmoil and in real time ( supported by Frame 313 ) it was actually the right temple and not the left. Oh sorry his head was in my hands. McClelland is obviously not a credible witness, eventhough he is an MD and was actually there.

Actually I found Dr Fromans testimony even more compelling as he gets into the Anatomical reasons why the single bullet theory was impossible. But that's in the next nine Commandments.

Anyway moving on I am surprised that the witness who was closest to Kennedy other than the Connallys and the Motorcycle Cop , Mrs Moorman, who took the Polaroid shots of Kennedy right after the head shot and is captured in the Zapruder film, is not mentioned or maybe I missed it. It wasn't the Badge Man controversy ( a candidate for A.I.) but rather the shots she heard and what she said.

Moorman said she heard one shot followed by a pause. Then she heard pow pow in succession. She then said there were other shots. Unfortunately Moorman sprained her ankle and had to reschedule her deposition. She NEVER heard from them again.

[Patrick Differ]

Hi Herlock- the focus of my post wasn't McClelland it was the Appeals Document. It has morphed into McClelland. The request for All xrays and photos was in January of 1969. That is over 5 years later?. Where is the exhaustive analysis of the xrays and photos documented? Would love to see those explanations and expert analysis. I dont believe the WC has anything more than the Connally wrist?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock- the focus of my post wasn't McClelland it was the Appeals Document. It has morphed into McClelland. The request for All xrays and photos was in January of 1969. That is over 5 years later?. Where is the exhaustive analysis of the xrays and photos documented? Would love to see those explanations and expert analysis. I dont believe the WC has anything more than the Connally wrist?

Hi Patrick

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=82#relPageId=1&tab=toc

Sections 39 and 41

[GBinOz]

That is definitely not what Dr Humes said.

"A. My problem is, very simply stated, we had an entrance wound high in the posterior back above the scapula. We didn't know where the exit wound was at that point. I'd be the first one to admit it. We knew in general in the past that we should have been more prescient than we were, I must confess, because when we removed the breast plate and examined the thoracic cavity, we saw a contusion on the upper lobe of the lung. There was no defect in the pleura anyplace. So it's obvious that the missile had gone over that top of the lung.
Of course, the more I thought about it, the more I realized it had to go out from the neck.

It was the only place it could go, after it was not found anywhere in the X-rays. So early the next morning, I called Parkland Hospital and talked with Malcolm Perry, I guess it was. And he said, Oh, yeah, there was a wound right in the middle of the neck by the tie, and we used that for the tracheotomy. Well, they obliterated, literally obliterated--when we went back to the photographs, we thought we might have seen some indication of the edge of that wound in the gaping skin where the--but it wouldn't make a great deal of sense to go slashing open the neck. What would we learn?"

Another deceptive post that fails to mention that the above is from Humes deposition to the ARRB in Feb 1996. At the time of the autopsy Hume probed the back wound and found it to be shallow, as confirmed by Finck, and was puzzled as to the lack of the presence of a projectile. After briefly considering an "ice" projectile, he postulated that the projectile must have fallen out as a result of the resuscitative measures utilised at Parkland. After speaking to Perry he burned his notes and rewrote the history of the autopsy to accommodate a neck wound instead of a back wound.

There is an interesting video (only 2 minutes long) of an interview with Arlen Specter who says that he based his SBT on drawings of the wounds, not photographs. His final quotation is very interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS3zrdkoCdY&ab_channel=SCGATOR2001

[GBinOz]

Hi Patrick

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=82#relPageId=1&tab=toc

Sections 39 and 41

Hey Iron Willpower, didn't you promise to never again darken the portals of this thread?

Carry on my friend.

[Fiver]

Another deceptive post that fails to mention that the above is from Humes deposition to the ARRB in Feb 1996. At the time of the autopsy Hume probed the back wound and found it to be shallow, as confirmed by Finck, and was puzzled as to the lack of the presence of a projectile. After briefly considering an "ice" projectile, he postulated that the projectile must have fallen out as a result of the resuscitative measures utilised at Parkland. After speaking to Perry he burned his notes and rewrote the history of the autopsy to accommodate a neck wound instead of a back wound.

That's a wildly inaccurate summary of Dr Humes Warren Commission testimony.

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. We were able to ascertain with absolute certainty that the bullet had passed by the apical portion of the right lung producing the injury which we mentioned.
I did not at that point have the information from Doctor Perry about the wound in the anterior neck, and while that was a possible explanation for the point of exit, we also had to consider the possibility that the missile in some rather inexplicable fashion had been stopped in its path through the President's body and, in fact, then had fallen from the body onto the stretcher.
Mr. SPECTER - And what theory did you think possible, at that juncture, to explain the passing of the bullet back out the point of entry; or had you been provided with the fact that external heart massage had been performed on the President?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; we had, and we considered the possibility that some of the physical maneuvering performed by the doctors might have in some way caused this event to take place.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, have you since discounted that possibility, Doctor Humes?
Commander HUMES - Yes; in essence we have.

Commander HUMES - We concluded that this missile depicted in 385 "C" which entered the President's body traversed the President's body and made its exit through the wound observed by the physicians at Parkland Hospital and later extended as a tracheotomy wound.

[GBinOz]

That's a wildly inaccurate summary of Dr Humes Warren Commission testimony.

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. We were able to ascertain with absolute certainty that the bullet had passed by the apical portion of the right lung producing the injury which we mentioned.
I did not at that point have the information from Doctor Perry about the wound in the anterior neck, and while that was a possible explanation for the point of exit, we also had to consider the possibility that the missile in some rather inexplicable fashion had been stopped in its path through the President's body and, in fact, then had fallen from the body onto the stretcher.
Mr. SPECTER - And what theory did you think possible, at that juncture, to explain the passing of the bullet back out the point of entry; or had you been provided with the fact that external heart massage had been performed on the President?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; we had, and we considered the possibility that some of the physical maneuvering performed by the doctors might have in some way caused this event to take place.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, have you since discounted that possibility, Doctor Humes?
Commander HUMES - Yes; in essence we have.

Commander HUMES - We concluded that this missile depicted in 385 "C" which entered the President's body traversed the President's body and made its exit through the wound observed by the physicians at Parkland Hospital and later extended as a tracheotomy wound.

"If the first look at the apple shows that it's rotten, why bite into it hoping that some of it is edible?"

After your two deliberately deceptive posts, I am taking no further looks at your apples.

[Patrick Differ]

Humes was described by the House Committee after citing the Bethesda Autopsys many failures, as like sending a 7 year old violin student to try out for the New York Symphony. And they were not talking child prodigy.

That is a harsh rebuke. No doubt the Autopsy caused as many problems as it may have solved.

I took another look at the events of that day and the Press briefings from Parkland Doctors were interesting. They were asked about entrance and exit and the descriptions they used were not just inconclusive but open for interpretation. In other words it could have been either.

If there was a need to silence Oswald and steer the outcome to him as a lone gunman, the Press briefings are a place one might look.

When Oswald said he was a Patsy, after the Press Briefing, was his fate sealed?

Did it happen this way? I dont honestly know. Just thoughts that came to me while reviewing data yesterday.

[Patrick Differ]

That's a wildly inaccurate summary of Dr Humes Warren Commission testimony.

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. We were able to ascertain with absolute certainty that the bullet had passed by the apical portion of the right lung producing the injury which we mentioned.
I did not at that point have the information from Doctor Perry about the wound in the anterior neck, and while that was a possible explanation for the point of exit, we also had to consider the possibility that the missile in some rather inexplicable fashion had been stopped in its path through the President's body and, in fact, then had fallen from the body onto the stretcher.
Mr. SPECTER - And what theory did you think possible, at that juncture, to explain the passing of the bullet back out the point of entry; or had you been provided with the fact that external heart massage had been performed on the President?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; we had, and we considered the possibility that some of the physical maneuvering performed by the doctors might have in some way caused this event to take place.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, have you since discounted that possibility, Doctor Humes?
Commander HUMES - Yes; in essence we have.

Commander HUMES - We concluded that this missile depicted in 385 "C" which entered the President's body traversed the President's body and made its exit through the wound observed by the physicians at Parkland Hospital and later extended as a tracheotomy wound.

Humes did in fact only probe the back with his finger. He did not perform a disection to see if there was a path from the back and exit out the neck. It never happened. When asked why not he said it was just his decision at the time. He also said he was feeling pressure to complete the autopsy.

Humes did in fact consider that the heart massage at Parkland may have dislodged this bullet.

Let's be clear here. Humes is giving his opinion from a question from Specter and that's it. He didn't prove anything. And who does Humes mean by We?

[Fiver]

At the time of the autopsy Hume probed the back wound and found it to be shallow, as confirmed by Finck, and was puzzled as to the lack of the presence of a projectile. After briefly considering an "ice" projectile, he postulated that the projectile must have fallen out as a result of the resuscitative measures utilised at Parkland. After speaking to Perry he burned his notes and rewrote the history of the autopsy to accommodate a neck wound instead of a back wound.

Now lets look at what Dr Finck said.

Mr. SPECTER - With respect to the question of likelihood of Governor Connally having been wounded in the back and chest with the same bullet which passed through President Kennedy in 385, what reduction would there be, if any, in the velocity, considering the relative positions of the two men in the automobile as reflected in photograph, Exhibit 398?
Colonel FINCK - Of course, to reach precise figures we would need experiments and similar circumstances with the same type ammunition at the same distance through two human cadavers, which I did not do.
On the basis that if we assume that this is one bullet going through President Kennedy's body and also through Governor Connally's body, the reduction of velocity would be of some extent after passing through President Kennedy's body, but not having hit bones, the reduction in velocity, after going through President Kennedy's body, would be minimal.
Mr. SPECTER - Would there be sufficient force then to inflict the wound which Dr. Humes described from the Parkland Hospital records as having been inflicted on Governor Connally's back and chest?
Colonel FINCK - There would be enough energy to go through the body of the Governor.
Mr. SPECTER - In expressing your opinion on that subject, Doctor Finck, have you taken into account the assumptions on distance, that we are dealing here with a weapon that has a muzzle velocity in the neighborhood of slightly in excess of 2,000, and that the vehicle carrying these two individuals was approximately 150, about 150 feet away from the site of origin of the missile?
Colonel FINCK - At this range, a bullet of this velocity loses very little velocity, and keeps upon impact a large amount of kinetic energy.
Mr. SPECTER - You heard the whole of Doctor Humes' testimony, did you not?
Colonel FINCK - Yes; I did.
Mr. SPECTER - Do you have anything that you would like to add to what he said?
Colonel FINCK - No.
Mr. SPECTER - Or would you like to modify his testimony in any way?
Colonel FINCK - No.

[Fiver]

Humes was described by the House Committee after citing the Bethesda Autopsys many failures, as like sending a 7 year old violin student to try out for the New York Symphony. And they were not talking child prodigy.

That is a harsh rebuke. No doubt the Autopsy caused as many problems as it may have solved.

It would be a harsh rebuke, but I can find no evidence that the HSCA ever said that about the autopsy. Not that they didn't provide plenty of criticism.

"The two major issues connected with the autopsy are its scope--full versus partial--and the competency with which the prosectors performed it. Despite allegations that the Kennedy family or other authorities ordered a partial or limited autopsy, evidence shows that the pathologists were given authority to perform a complete autopsy. The autopsy was not complete, however, according to established medicolegal standards. A combination of strong Kennedy family desires to finish the autopsy quickly, a military environment that hindered independent action, a lack of experience in forensic pathology among the prosectors, and a lack of established jurisdictional and procedural guidelines all contributed to the pathologists' failure to take certain measures essential to the completion of a thorough medicolegal autopsy and to competently perform the autopsy.

The measures essential to a thorough medicolegal autopsy that the pathologists failed to take are

1) Conducting the autopsy in an atmosphere free from the presence of individuals not necessary to any medical or investigative aspects of the autopsy. Aside from the Secret Service and FBI agents, it was not necessary for other military personnel to be in the autopsy room who were not performing a medical function.
2) Consulting the Parkland Hospital doctors who administered emergency treatment to the President before initiating the autopsy. According to the medical panel of the committee, such consultation is normal procedure.
3) Acquiring the assistance of an experienced pathologist engaged in the full-time practice of forensic pathology, as opposed to the consulting capacity Dr. Finck possessed. Such experienced assistance might have prevented several errors.
4) Recording precisely the locations of the wounds according to anatomical landmarks routinely used in forensic pathology. The medical panel of the committee stated that the reference points used to document the location of the wound in the upper back--the mastoid process and the acromion--are movable points and should not have been used.
5) Dissecting the wound that traversed the upper back of the President. The medical panel stated that probing a wound with a finger is hardly sufficient; to ascertain the actual track, the wound must be dissected.
6) Examining all organs and documenting the results of such examinations. Although the pathologists did examine most organs, they made no reference to the adrenal glands, part of the anatomy routinely examined during the autopsy.
7) Sectioning the brain coronally. Such documentation could have provided additional insight into the destructive impact of the missile in the brain.

The committee recognizes that the inadequacies of the autopsy originated in part from the unique and hectic circumstances surrounding the death of the President, and not with any one source. Whatever the cause, however, these inadequacies have continued to feed the confusion and mistrust so long associated with the autopsy of President Kennedy and have reduced the effectiveness of the committee's review of the medical evidence. These problems reinforce the necessity for establishing substantive and procedural guidelines to be followed in the performance of any autopsy stemming from the assassination of a national political official."

[Fiver]

Humes did in fact consider that the heart massage at Parkland may have dislodged this bullet.

Hume considered and rejected the idea that the heart massage at Parkland may have dislodged this bulle

Mr. SPECTER - And what theory did you think possible, at that juncture, to explain the passing of the bullet back out the point of entry; or had you been provided with the fact that external heart massage had been performed on the President?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; we had, and we considered the possibility that some of the physical maneuvering performed by the doctors might have in some way caused this event to take place.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, have you since discounted that possibility, Doctor Humes?
Commander HUMES - Yes; in essence we have.

[Fiver]

Anyway moving on I am surprised that the witness who was closest to Kennedy other than the Connallys and the Motorcycle Cop , Mrs Moorman, who took the Polaroid shots of Kennedy right after the head shot and is captured in the Zapruder film, is not mentioned or maybe I missed it. It wasn't the Badge Man controversy ( a candidate for A.I.) but rather the shots she heard and what she said.

Moorman's first statement is problematic.

"As President Kennedy was opposite me I took a picture of him. As I snapped the picture of President Kennedy, I heard a shot ring out. President Kennedy kind of slumped over. Then I heard another shot ring out and Mrs. Kennedy jumped up in the car and said, "My God he had been shot." When I heard these shots ring out, I fell to the ground to keep from being hit myself. I heard three or four shots in all."

The Zapruder and Nix films show that Jackie Kennedy did not jump up and no other witness agrees that she said this. Memory is fallible.

Moorman said she heard one shot followed by a pause. Then she heard pow pow in succession.

That's not an accurate summary of what Moorman said to the Dallas police, which I have already quoted. It doesn't match what Moorman said to the FBI, either.

"She took a second photograph of the President as his automobile passed her, and just as she snapped the the picture, she heard what she at first thought was a firecracker and very shortly thereafter heard another similar sound which she later determined to have been gunfire. She knows that she heard two shots and possibly a third shot. She recalls seeing the president "sort of jump" and start to slump sideways in the seat, and seems to recall President KENNEDY's wife scream, "My God, he's been shot"

As to the "Badge Man", it was a pop bottle sitting on the corner of the stone wall.

[Fiver]

Nell Connally said that when her husband was hit he reared up like a horse.

That is not an accurate description of what Mrs Connally said.

Mrs. CONNALLY. Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."

"crumpled" seems the exact opposite of "reared up".

[FISHY1118]

Thanks Mrs Connally for exposing the warren commission lie.

A separate bullet hit John Connally.