JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[FrankO]

Why was one bullet pristine and one completely fragmented?

I really have no idea, I have no experience whatsoever with guns/rifles and am no ballistic expert.

The debris field from 313 shows a shot to the temple with debris going up and out in all directions.

Yes, and one of those directions was forward, which is not only shown in frame 313, but also evidenced by statements by the Connally's and the spot where Harper found a fragement of skull, which was 20 to 25 meters southwest of the president's location when he recieved the head shot. A considerable stretch closer to the overpass.
This shows that your claim that there was only a debris field to the back and left and not to the front, is incorrect. And that was really all that I was reacting to.

Jackie Kennedy jumps on the back of the car to get a piece of Kennedys Skull. Back not forward. This is seen from the other side of the car in other film.

I never denied that, but it doesn't change the fact that debris went forward.

It's all deposits forward?

Again, I'm not claiming anything of the kind.

Frame 313 is not what it looks like.

If you don't trust the Zapruder film, why do you keep using it to try & make points?

The WC says it was a shot to the back of the head but Frame 313 shows an explosion at the temple?

That's indeed very much what it looks like.

[Patrick Differ]

Why was one bullet pristine and one completely fragmented? Because it hit bone? Like a rib or a wrist? Two explanations for the same bullet type? Bone does not equal bone.

The debris field from 313 shows a shot to the temple with debris going up and out in all directions. The cloud follows the head and you can see it in the succeeding 2 frames. Jackie Kennedy jumps on the back of the car to get a piece of Kennedys Skull. Back not forward. This is seen from the other side of the car in other film.

Suddenly Newton's Physics need not apply. Neck spasm. A bullet enters the back of the head and forms a perfectly round hole because it's the same bullet type. But in this case it enters the brain, muscle tissue and it explodes into over 100 pieces ? It does not exit instead it fragments and blows out the skull and brain? It's all deposits forward?

Frame 313 is not what it looks like. The WC says it was a shot to the back of the head but Frame 313 shows an explosion at the temple? There is no debris coming forward towards the camera it's all up and out, even back on the car hood and back on the motorcycle cop escort.

Somehow The only real truth is that the head shot was from the back. What you see is no longer relevant. The only relevance is Oswald did it.

Oliver Stone and some others appeared before Congress yesterday and testified that the CIA has it's hands all over this case and they believe they can prove Oswald was innocent.
The WC folks will attempt to discredit them. But keep in mind that the unholy alliance between the CIA and MOB to assassinate Leaders was real. They were doing it.

[cobalt]

Tippit was based out of the Oak Cliff Substation.

His patrol district was in South Oak Cliff, around 5 miles from Central Oak Cliff where he seemed to be a familiar face dropping into the Dobbs Eating House and the Top Ten Record shop whilst in uniform. He was also spotted at the GLOCO station in Central Oak Cliff at 12.45 by five witnesses who knew him by sight, a remarkable piece of anticipation on Tippit's part since the decision to send him there was only made at 12.45.

You are assuming the lack of evidence of a Conspiracy is proof that there was a successful Conspiracy

There's no lack of supporting evidence since that appears daily on this site. I previously raised the issue of conspiracy regarding Oswald being impersonated in a telephone call in Mexico City, a very odd incident since Oswald was portrayed as an inadequate, lone nutter by the WC. So why would anyone bother to do that? J Edgar Hoover seemed stumped as well. I can't remember receiving a response.

The only political shift under LBJ was he pushed harder for Civil Rights than JFK.

A very insular view of Johnson's presidency. Many in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos would disagree.

Neither of Dulles or McCone ran the World Bank.

That is correct. My recollection was wrong. I mixed up John McCone and John McCloy. Both were close friends of Allen Dulles. McCloy made his fortune as a war profiteer which qualified him to become President of the World Bank briefly in the late 1940s. Handing out 'Persil Certificates' to ex-Nazi industrialists was much appreciated in certain quarters. Like Dulles, McCloy's life was devoted to serving the plutocracy, and they retained their core interests in the legal/financial field.

Neither they, nor the CIA gained anything from JFK's death.

Dulles certainly did since he had been sacked as CIA chief after the Bay of Pigs fiasco. His star was in decline. AS a WC appointee, McCloy was initially sceptical about the Lone Gunman theory but after meeting Dulles saw the light. Perhaps being awarded the Presidential Medal of Honour by Johnson on 6th December 1963 helped in that regard.

[FrankO]

The Zapruder Film , Nix Film and Moorman film show the head shot and its aftermath with a debris field to the back and left and not to the front. So if the head exit wound was forward then why wasn't the debris field ?

I'm sorry, David, but what you write here just isn't true. Frame 313 alone shows debris flying up and slightly forward, and a vague cloud, that isn’t there a frame before, pointing up and forward, reaching a point above the governor’s head. So, there was also a debris field that went forward.

Furthermore, during the WC hearings the Connally’s told that they both were covered with material coming from the president’s head.

Governor Connally:
“Immediately, I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which 1 immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big almost as my thumbnail, …”

Mrs. Connally:
“The third shot that I heard I felt,” said Nellie Connally. “It felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter all over the car and both of us.”

And then there’s the location where William Harper found a fragment of skull: somewhere in the grass ahead and to the left of where the president was at the time of the head shot. Harper indicated the location himself on the map below. The map was accompanied by a letter written by him about the location on September 12, 1969.

[Fiver]

What witnesses saw Oswald in the 6th floor window? How credible could they be 6 stories down with a window half open and the shooter supposedly perched in the back corner of the window. And in a 6 to 10 second timeframe.

After the first shot, several people spotted the rifle in the sixth story window of the Book depository - Robert Jackson, Malcom Couch, James Crawford, Mrs Earle Cabell, James Worrell, and Amos Euins. Howard Brennan saw the shooter, describing him as a "white male, approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, 165 pounds". Arnold Rowland saw a man with a rifle before the shootings. Combined with the testimonies of Harold Norman, James Jarman, and Bonnie Ray Williams; who heard shots above them; it is clear that there was a shooter on the 6th floor of the TSBD.

But there was no definite identification of the shooter. For that, we have the forensic evidence - Oswald's prints, the rifle being Oswald's and provably the murder weapon. And Oswald's lack of an alibi.

No one. A good team of Defense Lawyers would tear these witnesses apart.

The defense could only tear them apart if the prosecution was stupid enough to claim that the witnesses had positively ID'd Oswald.

[Patrick Differ]

In the USA you are innocent until proven guilty. Period. You are also entitled to a trial by jury. Is it perfect? I would think not if you consider OJ Simpson and change of venue.

[Fiver]

I don't follow your logic here. The conspiracy (the one you think does not exist) succeeded on all the three grounds you mention. The POTUS was assassinated; the perpetrators were not identified; and the political shift under Johnson proved beneficial to those who backed the coup d'etat. Dulles and McCone (central figures in the WC) both had spells leading the World Bank IIRC as part of their reward.

You are assuming the lack of evidence of a Conspiracy is proof that there was a successful Conspiracy.

The only political shift under LBJ was he pushed harder for Civil Rights than JFK. Neither of Dulles or McCone ran the World Bank. Neither they, nor the CIA gained anything from JFK's death.

[Fiver]

Knott used the Leica 360 3D scanner with digital twin to perform this . Leica Geosystems and others perform these scan tests on a range of things like shootings or even the operation of chemical plants. The 360 3D is the most advanced and accurate scanner in commercial use. The Zapruder film was used as input for the analysis.

Here's the 2013 scan that supported the Single Bullet Theory.

"With the help of Leica Geosystems’ ScanStation P20, ballistic experts Michael and Luke Haag set out to determine if the “single bullet theory” was possible in “Cold Case JFK”, part of a special Nova series presented by PBS." - Leica Geosystems

[Herlock Sholmes]

It was categorically Oswald who killed JFK. It was categorically Oswald who killed JD Tippit.

Oswald almost certainly acted alone, but I don't rule out that he might have gotten another person or two involved who promised to help, but failed or got cold feet. Anything bigger requires a Conspiracy composed of lucky idiots.

But even the small conspiracy is wildly unlikely and I've seen no evidence to support the idea.

The only way that I could even consider anyone else being ‘involved’ in any way was if Oswald had been in some way encouraged after a contact perhaps with Cubans in Mexico. Maybe he met one or two who let it be known that they would be willing to offer him a new life after he’d killed Kennedy. Or that they could get him anonymously into the Soviet Union. Some such lie. Maybe they told him to get to the Texas Theatre after the assassination where he’d be met. A random bloke or two could easily avoid being traced leaving Oswald stranded and telling a tale with no evidence to back it up.

There’s just no evidence of there being actual assistance though or an attempted cover-up. That’s just spy novel territory.

[Fiver]

No. No doubt at all. It was categorically Oswald alone. The most obviously guilty man in the history of crime.

It was categorically Oswald who killed JFK. It was categorically Oswald who killed JD Tippit.

Oswald almost certainly acted alone, but I don't rule out that he might have gotten another person or two involved who promised to help, but failed or got cold feet. Anything bigger requires a Conspiracy composed of lucky idiots.

But even the small conspiracy is wildly unlikely and I've seen no evidence to support the idea.

[Fiver]

However, in the USA you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Oswald in this case was assassinated by ( another lone nut) before he could mount a defense.

Most Conspiracists only believe in innocent until proven guilty for Lee Harvey Oswald.

Those same Cospiracist assume that everyone who supports the idea that Oswald killed JFK is guilty of murder, conspiracy, treason, perjury, evidence tampering, etc. They don't just apply that standard to Hoover and LBJ, they apply it to the Bethesda doctors, Charles Givens, the Three Tramps, the Umbrella Man, Clay Shaw, JD Tippet, and dozens of others.

[Fiver]

As Warren Commission Supporters ( Herlock, Fiver) you are asking me to support what the government states is true. Beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is a key difference - you refer to it as "the government" as if it was a monolithic single entity. The government is composed of multiple organizations, many of which are rivals. Many of these organization are composed of factions, which are rivals to each other. And those are composed of individuals, each with their own goals.

I'm not asking anyone to support anything because the government, or any section of government says it's true. Neither should we reject something just because the government says it.

We need to look at the facts. I'll look at just one example - the prints. There are two possibilities - either they were left there by Oswald, or the Dallas Police, the FBI, multiple government investigations, and multiple independent experts over the course of decades were all part of a criminal plot to kill JFK.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Question - Where is the rear head wound in the Zapruder film?

Answer - It obviously doesn’t exist.

Conclusion - There was only an entry wound to the back of the head. There is no other conclusion.

Therefore - Shots from the rear proven.

Case closed.

[Patrick Differ]

Cobalt- if you believe the Single Bullet theory has been disproven rather than proven then you have a conspiracy. Since Humes cut corners and didn't trace the shot from back to front he only aided the conspiracy theory.

The Zapruder Film , Nix Film and Moorman film show the head shot and its aftermath with a debris field to the back and left and not to the front. So if the head exit wound was forward then why wasn't the debris field ?
Because we are to believe another theory using neck spasm proven using goats and gel heads.

A Jury in 1963/1964 would have seen these films. Would there eyes deceive them because there would not be these after the fact theories or tests to support the governments theories.

The Mafia was affiliated with the CIA because of Castro. They set up regime change assassination teams and those teams were based in New Orleans under the Mafia Control of Johnny Roselli and Carlos Marcello. They called Roselli the Colonel.

RFK went after Marcello and Hoffa and deported Marcello to the jungles of Guatemala. Marcello at that point wanted to kill RFK. Before JFK was scheduled for Dallas he was scheduled for Chicago and Miami. Chicago was Giancana and Miami was Trafficanti. The Mafia, to stop RFK, decided to cut off the head of the snake- JFK. If they couldn't get him in Chicago they would get him in Miami or Dallas.

Roselli, Giancana and Trafficanti were all murdered before they had a chance to testify. Ruby was a hood from Chicago and was into gambling and prostitution which was controlled by the MOB. Carlos Marcello controlled Dallas.

Oswald never had a chance to Defend himself. Ruby was allowed free access to Oswald. That only added to the Conspiracy theories.

Any conspiracy theory would have to include the relationships that the CIA had to the Mafia. RfK was motive for the MOB.
The Bay of Pigs was motive for the CIA. Castro was motive for the CIA and Mob assassination teams. Did they turn this assassination team concept to cut off the head of the snake.

WHo benefited from this assassination?

LBJ became President. He never would have otherwise.
RFK was marginalized and assassinated in 1968.
The MOB became more powerful.
The CIA became more powerful.
The Vietnam War escalated making millions for the Military Industrial Complex and its investors.
Hoover became FBI Director for Life, instead of forced retirement.

The MOB silenced it's own. Ruby silenced Oswald.

All from 4.8 seconds in Dallas. Assassination site #3.

[Fiver]

Or why Tippit was such a well known in Oak Cliff he might have stood for election to the local council.

Tippit was based out of the Oak Cliff Substation.