JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

The two Secret Servicemen in the car, one of them the driver, had to make vital decisions. Both, however, did have interesting comments on the shots. Agent Kellerman said later that the last sound he recalled was "like a double bang — bang! bang! ... like a plane going through the sound barrier." Agent Greer, the driver, also said the last shot cracked out "just right behind" its predecessor. This could conceivably mean the two agents heard a single bullet breaking the sound barrier, but It also suggests they heard two shots very close together indeed — far closer together than one man could achieve with a bolt-operated rifle. Agent Kellerman later expressed the opinion, based on what he heard and the wounds he saw later at the autopsy, that "there have got to be more than three shots."

Greer is more vauge than your source implies.

Mr. SPECTER. How much time elapsed, to the best of your ability to estimate and recollect, between the time of the second noise and the time of the third noise?
Mr. GREER. The last two seemed to be just simultaneously, one behind the other, but I don't recollect just how much, how many seconds were between the two. I couldn't really say.

But it is clear that Greer and Kellerman thought the last two of the three shots came very close together. There are other witnesses that support that, but there are also witnesses that disagree.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Your position requires that the over a dozen witnesses who saw Oswald shoot Tippit or flee the scene are liars. Your position requires everyone who saw Oswald attempt to use his gun are liars. Your position requires that the Dallas police fake the evidence. Your position requires that all forensics experts brought in as well as most of every committee that examined the Tippit killing are liars.

So you're calling at least 60 people liars.

Against that we have the Clemmons, Wright, and Holan stories which contradict each other on every point yet you believe all three of them to be true.

And yet he goes up in arms when it’s simply suggested that less than a quarter of that number at Parkland were simply mistaken. There’s no sense of balance Fiver. It appears that one side has a stringent set of qualifying rules applied to it whilst the other side can simply say anything and they believe that it should simply be accepted.

[Fiver]

I'm sure that was considered, as was an attempt at the Trade Mart itself where the bulk of the security detail had been allocated. The TSBD had the advantage of surprise, concealment and offered a better chance of escape, as events proved. There was no return fire from the security detail and the gunman/gunmen were able to escape the building.

Any location offered surprise. Both Ft Worth and the TSBD offered better concealment and chance of escape than the Grassy Knoll. Ft Worth offered a more exposed, unmoving target with clearer fields of fire and a much longer time to aim a first shot.

So why would a competent Conspiracy choose Dealey Plaza over Ft Worth?

[Fiver]

They didn't. The shooting of JD Tippit was not even disguised as a felon fleeing justice: it was a cold-blooded execution intending to silence a man for good. Whether Tippit was up so something at the time- his actions suggest he was- or whether his experienced eye just spotted someone he didn't think looked right I am not sure. But I cannot see his murder was planned beforehand.

If Tippit was executed for knowing too much, then the Dallas police must have falsified the forensics evidence to pin the blame on Oswald.

Why would the Dallas Police agree to a plan that involved the unnecessary murder of one of their own men?

[Fiver]

So all the witnesses who saw the person that wasn't Oswald shoot tippet, they lied , were mistaken , were idiots , didn't exist?

Maybe we should put your dozen in that category .?

Your position requires that the over a dozen witnesses who saw Oswald shoot Tippit or flee the scene are liars. Your position requires everyone who saw Oswald attempt to use his gun are liars. Your position requires that the Dallas police fake the evidence. Your position requires that all forensics experts brought in as well as most of every committee that examined the Tippit killing are liars.

So you're calling at least 60 people liars.

Against that we have the Clemmons, Wright, and Holan stories which contradict each other on every point yet you believe all three of them to be true.

[GBinOz]

That being said George ,we agree the fatal shot came from the front .

The forensics evidence shows the fatal shot came from the south knoll. I do not discount a possible almost simultaneous shot from the rear, but from a lower vantage point than the TSBD.

[GBinOz]

I know what she said: that her husband's wounds were all caused by one bullet, the second of 3 in total that were fired. According to the governor that wasn't before frame 130 in the Zapruder film, but the thing is that he held his right hand at about shoulder level from frame 128 or so to at least frame 179 and then again at least from frame 320 until 330. So, the point is: how can he have been hit both in his upperbody and his wrist by a downward shot when he held his hand, holding the hat, clearly above the point of exit in his upperbody? And how could he still have held his hat after the third and, according to the Connally's, final shot?

Hi Frank,

Just to be absolutely clear, you are suggesting, as am I, that Connally's injuries could not have been caused by one bullet?

Best regards, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

Humes, Boswell and Finck….thoroughly honest, decent, patriotic men…viciously and unfairly maligned by conspiracy theorists who are only interested in promoting their own biased, largely politically motivated interests.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Arlen Specter…..a totally honest man…..used the tools available to him to show how one bullet could have hit both men…..admitted that he couldn’t know whether time would prove him mistaken….reproduction using technology proved him 100% correct.

We should now call it the single bullet fact. Which leaves us with only one magic bullet. The disappearing bullet the conspiracy theorists have never come up with an explanation for.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks franky for pointing that out , should be ''Tippet''

Oh and btw , have you been paying attention to the 3875 post on this topic ?. Because if you had then you would see how willing ive been in my replys . Have fun ''tuning in'' .

If only they were ‘your’ replies Fishy.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Actual evidence [by request ]


Exposing the Warren Commision lie, again.......





Roger Craig and the 7.65 Mauser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnlEONc8mGE&t=295s&ab_channel=GilJesus

[4.mins 51 secs]




Dallas County Sheriff's Deputy Roger Craig tells the story of how police found a 7.65 Mauser in the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963. His story is supported by the sworn affidavits of Sheriff's Deputy Eugene Boone and Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman. Boone later recanted his description and Weitzman refused to talk about it, but Craig never wavered.

Note: the weapon's identification as a Mannlicher-Carcano was not released to the press until after authorities "found" records that Oswald had purchased such a weapon.



Remarkable that such a hugely important identification claim of the rifle used to kill the President could make it to the highest level of national news broadcasts with our most famous TV news broadcasters like Charles Collingswood and Walter Cronkite himself being allowed to report that the rifle was ID'd as a Mauser (for two days! ) before someone back in Dallas got it right?

Seems someone like Day and especially Constable Seymour Weitzman himself would have caught their mistaken ID before their Mauser ID went national.

Didn't Weitzman wait one or more days before going on TV to publicly correct his mistaken ID for the found rifle? Seems he would have caught his mistake as soon as Cronkite and dozens of other national news people were telling the world of his identification of the murder weapon as a Mauser the day and evening of the assassination.

That long time period before Weitzman sheepishly and embarrassingly confessing his grossly negligent ID of the rifle is what gives me suspicion thoughts about the whole affair.



I've seen it argued that the misidentification was because they just glanced at it.

First of all, what cop "glances" at at what is a murder weapon and the most important piece of evidence they will ever touch in their entire lifetimes?

Second "glancing at it" -how, EXACTLY, does that work? I want a detailed explanation at how anyone, much less EVERYONE, could "glance" at the rifle. Did they keep their eyes covered with their hands the whole time except for one quick peek? Did they run up to the rifle, and then stole a quick look at it as they turned to immediately run away?

I know this sounds like I'm kidding, but I'm not. Anyone who thinks the cops "glanced" at it, I would pose the same question. If you came within an arms length of it and looked at it for more than a few seconds, it was not a glance. If you held it in your hands, you certainly did not glance at it.

And one of the cops owned a sporting goods store, didn't he? It really doesn't matter, it just further underlines how unbelievable it all is. I don't care how much the profile of the Mannlicher looked like a Mauser from a distance. Anyone who could read would not mistake both the make AND the caliber.

I have never once heard a convincing argument as to why I, or anyone, should honestly believe the cops in Dallas read the words "MADE ITALY" and thought to themselves "This rifle was made in Germany" and read "CAL 6.5" and thought to themselves "Cal 6.5 means 7.65." Especially someone who owned a store that sold rifles, but let's get real - these were all good ol' Texas boys in 1963. Each and every one of them was familiar with firearms.

Ladies and Gents, here we are again. Our brilliant/stupid plotters. I can just imagine the words at the time….

”DOH! We left the wrong weapon lying around!”


No adult could accept this. Then again….

[Herlock Sholmes]

ACTUAL EVIDENCE .[as requested]

Doctors and nurses who couldn't tell an entrance wound from an exit wound.

An unbelievable statement. You do realise that medical professionals take specific training for that. Just being a doctor or nurse isn’t sufficient.

It’s the reason why when a an autopsy is to be done on a gunshot wound no one says “fetch Nurse Smith from the maternity ward. She can deal with it.”

[Herlock Sholmes]

I know what she said: that her husband's wounds were all caused by one bullet, the second of 3 in total that were fired. According to the governor that wasn't before frame 130 in the Zapruder film, but the thing is that he held his right hand at about shoulder level from frame 128 or so to at least frame 179 and then again at least from frame 320 until 330. So, the point is: how can he have been hit both in his upperbody and his wrist by a downward shot when he held his hand, holding the hat, clearly above the point of exit in his upperbody? And how could he still have held his hat after the third and, according to the Connally's, final shot?

And I'm not calling or going to call this woman a liar. I call her human and human memory isn't a recording machine, unlike a camera.

Hi Frank,

This is a huge issue in this type of conversation. Fishy is quite free and easy in calling the WC and the Bethesda pathologist liars but we only have to suggest that a witness or some witnesses might have been mistaken (a proposition that he would accept without quarrel on other threads) and he immediately accuses us of calling them liars. You can’t discuss the case sensibly with this approach (especially combined with the deluge of cut and pasting from conspiracist websites).

Some people are either unwilling or incapable of debate.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I,ll save you the trouble of another long boring post . .You,ve just accused the Medical Experts doctors at Parkland hospital ,who on the day of the assassination OF LYING .!!! Expert that saw the back of JFKS head with a massive hole blown out that looks nothing like the fake autopsy photos . All before you took your first breath. . You should quit right now . . You,ll forgive me if i ignore anything you say about the jfk autopsy photos ,at least untill you get your medical degree.

I haven’t accused a single Parkland doctor of lying. So you invented that.

And what about the Parkland doctors that didn’t place the wound in the back of the head? And what about the main doctor who admitted that they could easily have been mistaken.

You have no answers I’m afraid Fishy. All that you can do is to keep cutting and pasting the words of other conspiracy theorists who keep repeating the same nonsense.

Let me tell you what proper evidence is Fishy. Evidence that stands up in court. Ask any legal person what a Judge and Jury take notice of…

On your side….some people in Dealey Plaza who saw/heard shots and were trying to save their own lives. A split second gunshot.

Plus….a few largely inexperienced doctors….in a traumatic situation, in a situation when they were, admitted by themselves, totally focused on the throat and chest, many of whom weren’t near to the head, in a situation where the LOCATION OF THE ALLEGED WOUND WASN'T VISIBLE….and with a wound to the side of Kennedy’s head running blood to the base of his head.

Against…three pathologists specifically examining that wound…photographs confirming the wound…x-rays confirming that wound…a film showing a wound to the side of Kennedy’s head and definitely not the back…14 more pathologists who examined and confirmed the 3 pathologists work…the numerous independent experts who examined the photographs and x-rays in minute scientific detail and found absolutely no evidence of tampering.

Dream on…in court this is an open and shut case. Conspiracy theorists genuinely should be embarrassed for even entertaining this kind of thing for a second.

[FISHY1118]

I know what she said: that her husband's wounds were all caused by one bullet, the second of 3 in total that were fired. According to the governor that wasn't before frame 130 in the Zapruder film, but the thing is that he held his right hand at about shoulder level from frame 128 or so to at least frame 179 and then again at least from frame 320 until 330. So, the point is: how can he have been hit both in his upperbody and his wrist by a downward shot when he held his hand, holding the hat, clearly above the point of exit in his upperbody? And how could he still have held his hat after the third and, according to the Connally's, final shot?

And I'm not calling or going to call this woman a liar. I call her human and human memory isn't a recording machine, unlike a camera.

Lets just say, ill take her memory over the Zfilm that was conveniently used and fitted to support the warren commission findings . Tell me , what year was the film released to the public?