JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

Arlen Spector created the magic bullet theory to fit the crime. 7 entrances and exits, a back brace, 7 layers of clothing and pulverizing of rib bone and wrist to come out virtually pristine.

Here's an example of two men wounded by a single bullet. Here's an example of two men killed and a third wounded by a single bullet.

I'm not sure why you mention the back brace. The bullet went through JFK's neck.

And then the bullet somehow ends up on Connallys gurney. Yet the Secret Service Agent who claims he found it in front of Kennedys foot area in the Limo is clearly lying.

Landis was lying, the only question was whether he did so in 1963 or 2023.

In 2023, Paul Landis claimed he saw a fully intact bullet "sitting on the back seat ledge, where the cushion meets the metal on the car."

Landis claims he "So all the time I've been standing there, I've been kind of fumbling with the bullet in my pocket. I took it out and I set it by the president's left foot, and it was like a white cotton blanket on the table, and the bullet started to roll off the table, and I reached out and grabbed it, and there was a little wrinkle in the blanket. So I put the bullet so that it wouldn't roll off. It stopped in that blanket."

This would be a good time to note that Landis is selling a book and that his 2023 statements contradict his 1963 statements.

"By this time someone was lifting the President's body out of the right side of the car. Agent Hill helped Mrs. Kennedy out of the car, and I followed. Mrs. Kennedy's purse and hat and a cigarette lighter were on the back seat. I picked these three items up as I walked through the car and followed Mrs. Kennedy into the hospital.

The President's body was taken directly to an Emergency Room, and I think I remember Mrs. Kennedy following the people in but coming out almost immediately. The door to the Emergency Room was closed and I stayed by Mrs. Kennedy's side. Someone, in the meantime, had brought a chair for Mrs. Kennedy to sit in and she sat just outside of the Emergency Room. There were several people milling around and with the help of a nurse we cleared all unauthorized personnel out of the immediate area."

"Most of the time while in the hospital I stayed right next to Mrs. Kennedy. Twice, I believe, she went into the Room where the President was; however, I remained outside by the door. A short time later I still remember several people standing around, and I asked a doctor for help in clearing the area. At approximately 2:00 p.m. the President's body was wheeled from the hospital in a coffin into an ambulance."

But Landis doesn't just contradict himself, he contradicts where bullet CE 399 was found, which was Connally's, not JFK's stretcher.

What Landis describes is a magic bullet - only he can see it, it lets him enter and exit the Emergency Room unseen by anyone, leave the bullet where no one else sees it, and then it magically teleports to Connally's stretcher, having acquired damage that Landis never saw, and teleporting two fragments of itself into Connally's wrist.

[Fiver]

Here's another try at what the Parkland Doctors said. about JFK’s head wound.

Specified a location, but not whether it was an entrance or exit wound.

Mr. Specter - Now, will you describe in as much particularity as you can the nature of the head wound
Dr. Baxter - The only wound that I actually saw--Dr. Clark examined this above the manubrium of the sternum, the sternal notch. This wound was in temporal parietal plate of bone laid outward to the side and there was a large area, oh, I would say 6 by 8 or 10 cm. of lacerated brain oozing from this wound, part of which was on the table and made a rather massive blood. loss mixed with it and around it.

Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe as specifically as you can the head wound which you have already mentioned briefly?
Dr. CARRICO - Sure. This was a 5- by 71-cm defect in the posterior skull, the occipital region. There was an absence of the calvarium or skull in this area, with shredded tissue, brain tissue present and initially considerable slow oozing. Then after we established some circulation there was more profuse bleeding from this wound.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe the President's condition to be on your arrival there?
Dr. CLARK - I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed. There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage, the floor, and the clothing of some of the people present. I would estimate 1,500 cc. of blood being present.

Mr. SPECTER - What was the condition of the President when you arrived?
Dr. GIESECKE - There was a great deal of blood loss which was apparent when he came in the room--the cart was covered with blood and there was a great deal of blood on the floor. There was--I could see no spontaneous motion on the part of the President. In other words, he made no movement during the time that I was in the room. As I moved around towards the head of the emergency cart with the anesthesia machine and the resuscitative equipment and helped Dr. Jenkins to hook the anesthesia machine up to the President to give him oxygen, I noticed that he had a very large cranial wound, with loss of brain substance, and it seemed that most of the bleeding was coming from the cranial wound.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe specifically as to the nature of the cranial wound ?
Dr. GIESECKE - It seemed that from the vertex to the left ear, andfrom the browline to the occiput on the left-hand side of the head the cranium was entirely missing.

Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe as precisely as you can the nature of the head wound?
Dr. JONES - There was large defect in the back side of the head as the President lay on the cart with what appeared to be some brain hanging out of this wound with multiple pieces of skull noted next with the brain and with a tremendous amount of clot and blood.

Dr. McCLELLAND - As I took the position at the head of the table that I have already described, to help out with the tracheotomy, I was in such a position that I could very closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted. It had been shattered, apparently, by the force of the shot so that the parietal bone was protruded up through the scalp and seemed to be fractured almost along its right posterior half, as well as some of the occipital bone being fractured in its lateral haft, and this sprung open the bones that I mentioned in such a way that you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blasted out. There was a large amount of bleeding which was occurring mainly from the large venous channels in the skull which had been blasted open.

Mr. SPECTER - Will you now describe as specifically as you can, the injury which you noted in the President's head?
Dr. PERRY - As I mentioned previously in the record, I made only a cursory examination of the President's head. I noted a large avulsive wound of the right parietal occipital area, in which both scalp and portions of skull were absent, and there was severe laceration of underlying brain tissue. My examination did not go any further than that.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the nature of the President's wound?
Dr. PETERS - Well, as I mentioned, the neck wound had already been interfered with by the tracheotomy at the time I got there, but I noticed the head wound, and as I remember--I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you notice in the occiput?
Dr. PETERS - It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal area that there was a large defect. There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe with respect to the head wound?
Dr. SALYER - I came in on the left side of him and noticed that his major wound seemed to be in his right temporal area, at least from the point of view that I could see him, and other than that--nothing other than he did have a gaping scalp wound-- cranial wound.

Said that the bullet entered the side of JFK’s skull and exited the rear.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you have any opinion as to the direction-that the bullet hit his head?
Dr. AKIN - I assume that the right occipitalparietal region was the exit, so to speak, that he had probably been hit on the other side of the head, or at least tangentially in the back of the head, but I didn't have any hard and fast opinions about that either.

Did not specify a location.
Mr. SPECTER - And what did you observe the President's condition to be at the time you arrived?
Dr. BASHOUR - The President was lying on the stretcher, the head wound was massive, the blood was dripping from the head, and at that time the President had an endotracheal tube, and his pupils were dilated, his eyes were staring, and they were not reactive, there was no pulsations, his heart sounds were not present, and his extremities were cold.

Mr. SPECTER - During the course of your presence near President Kennedy, did you have any opportunity to observe any wounds on his body?
Dr. CURTIS - After I had completed the cutdown, I went around to the right side of the patient and saw the head wound.
Mr. SPECTER - And what did you observe there?
Dr. CURTIS - Oh--fragments of bone and a gross injury to the cranial contents, with copious amounts of hemorrhage.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the condition of the President when you entered?
DR. DULANY - Well, at this time his pupils were fixed and dilated and he had a large head wound---that was the first thing I noticed.

Mr. SPECTER - Now, will you now describe the wound which you observed in the head?
Dr. JENKINS - Almost by the time I was--had the time to pay more attention to the wound in the head, all of these other activities were under way. I was busy connecting up an apparatus to respire for the patient, exerting manual pressure on the breathing bag or anesthesia apparatus, trying to feel for a pulse in the neck, and then reaching up and feeling for one in the temporal area, seeing about connecting the cardioscope or directing its being connected, and then turned attention to the wound in the head.
Now, Dr. Clark had begun closed chest cardiac massage at this time and I was aware of the magnitude of the wound, because with each compression of the chest, there was a great rush of blood from the skull wound. Part of the brain was herniated; I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound; there was part of the brain tissue, broken fragments of the brain tissue on the drapes of the cart on which the President lay.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you have an opportunity to observe any of his wounds?
Dr. WHITE - I saw the wound in his head as he was brought into the trauma room where he was treated.

Did not see the wound.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe any wounds on the President?
Dr. HUNT - I actually did not see the wounds.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you at any time see a wound to the head?
Dr. HUNT - No; I didn't see it.
Mr. SPECTER - And was there something obscuring your view from seeing the head wound?
Dr. HUNT - Yes; I could see his face and I could also see that a great deal of blood was running off of the table from his right side and I was on his left side.

[Lewis C]

Those of you who think that the package that Oswald carried into the TSBD wasn't a rifle, do you think then that he was telling the truth that it contained curtain rods?

[Lewis C]

double post

[Lewis C]

I’d like to assess a part of the case and it will be the result of my own thinking and not just an exercise in cutting and pasting someone else’s work.

The area I want to talk about is The Sniper’s Nest and the location of the rifle and the cartridges and i’m not talking about a discussion on technical issues concerning the rifle and ammunition but just the fact of them being where they were, and I want to do it in relation to three suggestions as to what happened at the time of the assassination. The three are:


a - That some unknown person created the Sniper’s Nest and planted the rifle and cartridges to incriminate LHO.

b - That some unknown person created the Sniper’s Nest in order to fire at Kennedy without LHO being aware of it.

c - That LHO created the Sniper’s Nest and fired at Kennedy from that location.


So let’s begin with option a.


So when did our mystery man create the Sniper’s Nest and plant the rifle and cartridges? Aside from all debate on where Oswald was at what time we can reasonably assume that he wasn’t there when someone was setting him up as the Presidents assassin. So where did our mystery man come from? He is to be congratulated for gaining access to a very busy working building, with staff on all floors, without a single person seeing and noting the presence of a complete stranger (especially as he was carrying a large package containing a rifle) While we are at it we have to add more praise for him exiting the building without being seen.

Then we have to ask ourselves how this man could have known or predicted Oswald’s actions? (as Oswald was naturally totally oblivious to the fact that he was been set up as an assassin) Was he just waiting in the shadows for the off chance that the 6th floor would become empty? What if it hadn’t? What if a couple of workers had stayed on the 6th floor? How could he have got from his hiding place to the Nest unseen? How could he have created the Nest in the first place. What if someone had left, bought a drink at one of the machines and returned to the 6th floor two minutes later?

Another question is for those that take the Roger Craig seriously. Can we really believe that our conspirator decided to plant cartridges lined up and within an inch or less of each other? How could that convince any investigator? The answer of course is that it wouldn’t. But this isn’t something that we have to consider because we know from the evidence that Craig just can’t be taken seriously.

Another very obvious question to ask is what if there had been someone on the 6th floor at the time of the shots and they, quite naturally, would have known that no shots could have been fired from that floor because they guy had just set up the Sniper’s Nest and left. Where would that have left our conspirators?

It’s obvious that the suggestion that some stranger arranged the Sniper’s Nest and planted the rifle of cartridges simply doesn’t hold water.

All true Herlock, and there's another problem with option A: witness testimony. There were people who saw a man in the window at the time of the assassination, and also at least one man eating lunch on the 5th floor right under that window who looked out and up and saw a gun sticking out the widow at that time. So option A can be safely rejected. One could make an option D: there was a man with a rifle at that window at the time, but he didn't fire the rifle. That's pretty far-fetched too, but no worse than option A.

[c.d.]

You're right, Herlock. No one is going to change their mind at this point and the thread has simply deteriorated into a giant pissing match.

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’ve had enough of this thread.

And to think it only took 3,672 posts to arrive at that conclusion.

I’d like to go back to the ripper case...

Wait...you're saying there is a Ripper case?

c.d.

You’re right c.d.

I had no intention of getting drawn back in but I did. No one to blame but me. The subject is a nightmare.

[c.d.]

I’ve had enough of this thread.

And to think it only took 3,672 posts to arrive at that conclusion.

I’d like to go back to the ripper case...

Wait...you're saying there is a Ripper case?

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ball and Belin were notoriously two handed in dealing with witnesses. They were the ones, along with Rankin, who pushed Warren to allow "Off the record" pre testimony interviews, which many of the junior counsels were very much against, (for the obvious reasons that it would look pretty poor that not only were they refusing Oswald any sort of defence counsel, but that they were also coaching and testing witness pre-hearing) where they essentially ran practice runs on witnesses and learned which questions NOT to ask, in order to lead to the "Clean Witness Statements" Warren wanted.

They twisted Bonnie Ray Williams in knots till he finally said something they liked and that became his testimony. They turned Charles Givens into a super witness by somehow, (after several statements and affidavits made to FBI and DPD saying he had last seen Oswald pre 12.00pm when Givens went down for his lunch,) following a closed door session with Belin, he was suddenly on the sixth floor at 12:15 to 12:20 observing Oswald over by the snipers nest. A view that had they checked in advance would have proved pretty difficult to demonstrate with the boxes intact as the photos taken on the day showed that such a view was blocked.
They bullied the Fraziers and Victoria Adams who refused to shift, and just wrote lies instead, and discarded witnesses who said things they weren't keen on hearing. I could go on at length about the shabby behaviour of those two men, before even building up to the behaviour of the manipulative little skid-mark Arlen Specter.

I don't subscribe to any of the theories as to who did it. There are too many variables.
I think Warren was stuck between a rock and a hard place, and he caved to Johnson's demand of a result that placed the entire thing in Oswald's lap and shut down anything that might go against that finding.

The conspiracy that I object to is the pretty bloody obvious one, which was Johnson's dread of anyone (including himself) being associated with the killing beyond Oswald. A foreign conspiracy meant war, (NOT the one he was hoping for) and a domestic plot would be devastating for him trying to win the next election as incumbent, and could have led to accusation from both sides at the other side, with him in the middle quite likely being the target of most of those accusations. His sudden presidency fell nicely for him to avoid the looming investigation into the Billie Sols Estes matter... which J Edgar managed to sweep away, after threatening the lawyer who was going after LBJ.
Johnson was corrupt. he was as bent as a nine bob note, but I don't think he was involved in the planning of Kennedy's murder. His response and reaction was too haphazard, and self defensive to the situation had he already been primed for it. The last thing any accomplices would have wanted was LBJ leaning on Hoover for help, (Hoover wasn't behind it either... he was the biggest bastard in the whole story... maybe tied with Allen Dulles actually... but he wasn't in line to get anything for himself or the FBI, as a result. And those were his only two considerations.)

The documentation is all out there, showing how LBJ and Hoover worked to push the "Lone Nut" theory before any evidence was in. How he needed to avoid The House or The Senate conducting a proper inquiry outside of his direct control, while pacifying the Governor of Texas who was pissed off at all the bad press his state was getting and was threatening to pursue their own inquiry, (a Texas inquiry was nipped in the bud by Waggoner Carr and Earl Warren agreeing before the Warren Commission even met, that his Commission would absolutely be "Fair to Texas" (Acting AG Katzenbach had a REAL hard time brokering THAT agreement....)

Hoover even told Johnson there wasn't enough evidence to convict Oswald in a court, so they needed to drive the public into believing he had done it. Hoover was more interested in keeping the FBI clean and tidy after some stone-cold ****-ups on their part.
They tried to bury everything in an enormous morass of paperwork, and never imagined that people would give enough of a **** to dig deep enough to find the important stuff, (they just stamped it "National Security") or that there would ever come a time when documents could be easily searched on the internet by so many people eager to research it.
Fair play to the CIA, they have dug their heels in for over 60 years in terms of compliance with judicial instruction (or the avoidance of it), and dodged spilling their dirtiest secrets over the matter.

But despite all this being out in the public, and easy to read, it's all "Conspiracy Nonsense"...

Because it is nonsense AP. Just because something is out there to read it doesn’t mean that it’s true. You’re just reading what conspiracy theorist liars like Mark Lane tell you and accepting it as true. This is the trouble with conspiracy supporters they can never run into a conspiracy story that they don’t like. They have no filter. Everything means conspiracy.

No one ‘pushed’ a Lone Nut’ theory. They didn’t need to because Kennedy was killed by a one man working alone. That’s what the evidence tells us. Discussions about LBJ, Hoover, etc are surplus to requirements.

Oswald’s childhood included psychiatric treatment.
Oswald was a traitor who defected.
Oswald cut his wrists in Russia.
Oswald had an unsettled lifestyle.
Oswald was violent to his mother, brother and wife.
Oswald changed the day he went to the Paine’s.
Oswald left all of his money and his wedding ring.
Oswald carried a large package to work.
Oswald dashed into the building without waiting for Frazier.
Oswald pretended that he didn’t know the President was coming.
Oswald’s rifle was found.
Oswald’s rifle shot Kennedy.
Oswald’s prints were on the rifle.
Oswald’s rifle at the Paine’s was missing.
Oswald had previously tried to kill Governor Walker.
Oswald had to be restrained by his wife from shooting Nixon.
Oswald was the only man to leave the building.
Oswald ignore his usual route home.
Oswald refused to speak to the taxi driver.
Oswald got dropped off away from the rooming house and walked back.
Oswald pretended to walk one way then went te other.
Oswald ignore Earlene Roberts.
Oswald picked up a pistol.
Oswald was identified at the Tippit murder scene with a gun.
Oswald was arrested with a gun on him.
Oswald’s gun was the gun that killed Tippit.
Oswald’s wife felt he was guilty.
Oswald’s brother felt him guilty.
Oswald’s friends in the Russian emigré community felt him guilty.


How the hell is this man the innocent dupe that some people have the nerve to claim him to be?

This guy was guiltier than OJ was (and he was a guilty as hell.) Stone cold guilty.

I’ve had enough of this thread. I’d like to go back to the ripper case where there is almost no talk of conspiracy. Obviously everyone on here can carry on. Or they can go listen to Alex Jones and his pals.

[A P Tomlinson]

Precious little I would imagine. Employing militaristic terms like 'Task Force' is usually an indication of style over substance.

APT,

The timings which place Oswald on the ground floor at around 12.15 and the second floor at around 12.32 are an obvious undermining of the WC account. The response to this relies the self-referential assumption that LHO was guilty and a lone gunman therefore:

1. Fit FBI agents showed it was physically possible to reach the 6th floor, shoot the president and return in the times given.
2. The women were simply mistaken about the times.
3. No conspiracy would have relied upon a man whose movements could not be closely controlled or monitored thus Oswald must have acted alone.

The last point often appears on this forum, an interesting example of reverse logic. It assumes that the conspirators were committed to the single gunman theory whereas that construct emerged from the Warren Commission months later.

Some political reality from George Orwell.

Once power was transferred to Johnson in Dallas, the events of 22nd November were under the control of his administration. They opted for the rather unlikely combination of a lone gunman (and a highly politically engaged one) acting without any discernible political motive.


The conspiracy was only a partial success. Johnson did not use Oswald's political leanings as a pretext to invade Cuba which was surely a significant motive for the assassination. The escalation of US commitment to the Vietnam conflict was achieved, but as it turned out the social cost was very high as a generation of younger Americans became disillusioned about their own country. However that social unrest struggled to achieve a political momentum capable of exposing the conspirators and was effectively buried with the assassination of RFK.

Ball and Belin were notoriously two handed in dealing with witnesses. They were the ones, along with Rankin, who pushed Warren to allow "Off the record" pre testimony interviews, which many of the junior counsels were very much against, (for the obvious reasons that it would look pretty poor that not only were they refusing Oswald any sort of defence counsel, but that they were also coaching and testing witness pre-hearing) where they essentially ran practice runs on witnesses and learned which questions NOT to ask, in order to lead to the "Clean Witness Statements" Warren wanted.

They twisted Bonnie Ray Williams in knots till he finally said something they liked and that became his testimony. They turned Charles Givens into a super witness by somehow, (after several statements and affidavits made to FBI and DPD saying he had last seen Oswald pre 12.00pm when Givens went down for his lunch,) following a closed door session with Belin, he was suddenly on the sixth floor at 12:15 to 12:20 observing Oswald over by the snipers nest. A view that had they checked in advance would have proved pretty difficult to demonstrate with the boxes intact as the photos taken on the day showed that such a view was blocked.
They bullied the Fraziers and Victoria Adams who refused to shift, and just wrote lies instead, and discarded witnesses who said things they weren't keen on hearing. I could go on at length about the shabby behaviour of those two men, before even building up to the behaviour of the manipulative little skid-mark Arlen Specter.

I don't subscribe to any of the theories as to who did it. There are too many variables.
I think Warren was stuck between a rock and a hard place, and he caved to Johnson's demand of a result that placed the entire thing in Oswald's lap and shut down anything that might go against that finding.

The conspiracy that I object to is the pretty bloody obvious one, which was Johnson's dread of anyone (including himself) being associated with the killing beyond Oswald. A foreign conspiracy meant war, (NOT the one he was hoping for) and a domestic plot would be devastating for him trying to win the next election as incumbent, and could have led to accusation from both sides at the other side, with him in the middle quite likely being the target of most of those accusations. His sudden presidency fell nicely for him to avoid the looming investigation into the Billie Sols Estes matter... which J Edgar managed to sweep away, after threatening the lawyer who was going after LBJ.
Johnson was corrupt. he was as bent as a nine bob note, but I don't think he was involved in the planning of Kennedy's murder. His response and reaction was too haphazard, and self defensive to the situation had he already been primed for it. The last thing any accomplices would have wanted was LBJ leaning on Hoover for help, (Hoover wasn't behind it either... he was the biggest bastard in the whole story... maybe tied with Allen Dulles actually... but he wasn't in line to get anything for himself or the FBI, as a result. And those were his only two considerations.)

The documentation is all out there, showing how LBJ and Hoover worked to push the "Lone Nut" theory before any evidence was in. How he needed to avoid The House or The Senate conducting a proper inquiry outside of his direct control, while pacifying the Governor of Texas who was pissed off at all the bad press his state was getting and was threatening to pursue their own inquiry, (a Texas inquiry was nipped in the bud by Waggoner Carr and Earl Warren agreeing before the Warren Commission even met, that his Commission would absolutely be "Fair to Texas" (Acting AG Katzenbach had a REAL hard time brokering THAT agreement....)

Hoover even told Johnson there wasn't enough evidence to convict Oswald in a court, so they needed to drive the public into believing he had done it. Hoover was more interested in keeping the FBI clean and tidy after some stone-cold ****-ups on their part.
They tried to bury everything in an enormous morass of paperwork, and never imagined that people would give enough of a **** to dig deep enough to find the important stuff, (they just stamped it "National Security") or that there would ever come a time when documents could be easily searched on the internet by so many people eager to research it.
Fair play to the CIA, they have dug their heels in for over 60 years in terms of compliance with judicial instruction (or the avoidance of it), and dodged spilling their dirtiest secrets over the matter.

But despite all this being out in the public, and easy to read, it's all "Conspiracy Nonsense"...

[Patrick Differ]

There is also the possibility that Oswald was in fact on the government's payroll. That would be one explanation for withholding thousands of documents. The other is protecting National Security secrets or assets. It's not clear a family is being protected. But there is a reason for withholding.

I'm not sure what the term " Task Force" has to do with a Military term in this case but truth and transparency is a goal. Americans have little faith in government institutions so restoring some level of trust is a goal here within the House of Representatives. If Oswald did it he did it. If he wasnt alone or completely innocent than there is that too. It night mean more to Americans who lived through the ordeal of three murders of 3 major leaders. All within our own Country.

It would not surprise me to see an ex Marine purchase guns through the mail . Why he would use an alias would seem to mean he didn't want to be traced. Why could mean anything.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Plenty of talk about the method of ordering the rifle and the rifle that was actually delivered but let’s ask a simpler question.

Why would a group of conspirators, whose aim was to set LHO Oswald up as the killer, have ordered a rifle in the name of Hidell?it makes zero sense. You want to set up a man as a killer you order the rifle in his own name.

Just ask common sense questions and the case solves itself.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’d like to assess a part of the case and it will be the result of my own thinking and not just an exercise in cutting and pasting someone else’s work.

The area I want to talk about is The Sniper’s Nest and the location of the rifle and the cartridges and i’m not talking about a discussion on technical issues concerning the rifle and ammunition but just the fact of them being where they were, and I want to do it in relation to three suggestions as to what happened at the time of the assassination. The three are:


a - That some unknown person created the Sniper’s Nest and planted the rifle and cartridges to incriminate LHO.

b - That some unknown person created the Sniper’s Nest in order to fire at Kennedy without LHO being aware of it.

c - That LHO created the Sniper’s Nest and fired at Kennedy from that location.


So let’s begin with option a.


So when did our mystery man create the Sniper’s Nest and plant the rifle and cartridges? Aside from all debate on where Oswald was at what time we can reasonably assume that he wasn’t there when someone was setting him up as the Presidents assassin. So where did our mystery man come from? He is to be congratulated for gaining access to a very busy working building, with staff on all floors, without a single person seeing and noting the presence of a complete stranger (especially as he was carrying a large package containing a rifle) While we are at it we have to add more praise for him exiting the building without being seen.

Then we have to ask ourselves how this man could have known or predicted Oswald’s actions? (as Oswald was naturally totally oblivious to the fact that he was been set up as an assassin) Was he just waiting in the shadows for the off chance that the 6th floor would become empty? What if it hadn’t? What if a couple of workers had stayed on the 6th floor? How could he have got from his hiding place to the Nest unseen? How could he have created the Nest in the first place. What if someone had left, bought a drink at one of the machines and returned to the 6th floor two minutes later?

Another question is for those that take the Roger Craig seriously. Can we really believe that our conspirator decided to plant cartridges lined up and within an inch or less of each other? How could that convince any investigator? The answer of course is that it wouldn’t. But this isn’t something that we have to consider because we know from the evidence that Craig just can’t be taken seriously.

Another very obvious question to ask is what if there had been someone on the 6th floor at the time of the shots and they, quite naturally, would have known that no shots could have been fired from that floor because they guy had just set up the Sniper’s Nest and left. Where would that have left our conspirators?

It’s obvious that the suggestion that some stranger arranged the Sniper’s Nest and planted the rifle of cartridges simply doesn’t hold water.


Now, let’s consider option b.


Again of course we have to deal again with the problem of a complete stranger, carrying a rifle in some king of package, entering and leaving a busy working building with not a single person reporting seeing a him. Then more problems present themselves some of which are the same ones that are applicable to option a.

So we assume he’d managed to sneak in unseen, and we assume that he’d successfully hidden himself, and we assume that he was fortunate enough to get the 6th floor to himself, and we assume that he was lucky enough to escape the building unnoticed, we then have to talk about the Sniper’s Nest and why this man would have needed one.

He would certainly have needed a huge chunk of luck that the workers all left the 6th floor allowing our unknown shooter to set up the Nest, assemble the rifle, kill Kennedy and escape unseen.

As the whole point of this plot was to set up LHO as the killer it’s reasonable for us to accept that our unknown shooter did indeed want to escape the building unseen and unidentified. The building of a Sniper’s Nest would have allowed someone to continue firing had someone else been on the 6th floor but it wouldn’t have allowed the shooter to escape unseen which would have been a disaster for our unknown shooter. Imagine the scene, he’s heard firing, he’s seen escaping, he’s pointed out to the police and arrested. Then the police find a rifle traced to an employee of the TSBD. They find that employees prints on the gun. And, as we can assume that our unknown gunman wouldn’t have wanted to be traced so he would have taken steps (by wearing gloves) the police would have had a gunman and a gun without the gunman’s prints on.


None of this is invention. I’m simply questioning what has been assumed to have been the case by conspiracy theorists.


So what about option c.


LHO had every right to be on the 6th floor so all of the issues and risks affecting a stranger don’t apply to him. He had no need to hide away; he could have piled boxes when being watched and no one would have given him a second glance. Like our shooter in option b the nest would have allowed Oswald to shoot without anyone trying to stop him. But what about escaping? We know that our option b man needed to escape without being captured and identified but here is the big difference. A guilty Oswald had no need to escape unseen or unnoticed

So do we have any actual evidence that LHO was either unconcerned about being identified and captured or that he even expected to be identified and captured? Yes we do of course. He’d left $170 and his wedding ring behind.



Only LHO makes sense as the 6th floor gunman.

[cobalt]

The US Government has put together a Task Force in the House to investigate JFK, RFK and MLK Assassinations. I would advise waiting to see what comes of it.

Precious little I would imagine. Employing militaristic terms like 'Task Force' is usually an indication of style over substance.

APT,

The timings which place Oswald on the ground floor at around 12.15 and the second floor at around 12.32 are an obvious undermining of the WC account. The response to this relies the self-referential assumption that LHO was guilty and a lone gunman therefore:

1. Fit FBI agents showed it was physically possible to reach the 6th floor, shoot the president and return in the times given.
2. The women were simply mistaken about the times.
3. No conspiracy would have relied upon a man whose movements could not be closely controlled or monitored thus Oswald must have acted alone.

The last point often appears on this forum, an interesting example of reverse logic. It assumes that the conspirators were committed to the single gunman theory whereas that construct emerged from the Warren Commission months later.

Some political reality from George Orwell.

He who controls the present controls the past.

Once power was transferred to Johnson in Dallas, the events of 22nd November were under the control of his administration. They opted for the rather unlikely combination of a lone gunman (and a highly politically engaged one) acting without any discernible political motive.

He who controls the past controls the future.

The conspiracy was only a partial success. Johnson did not use Oswald's political leanings as a pretext to invade Cuba which was surely a significant motive for the assassination. The escalation of US commitment to the Vietnam conflict was achieved, but as it turned out the social cost was very high as a generation of younger Americans became disillusioned about their own country. However that social unrest struggled to achieve a political momentum capable of exposing the conspirators and was effectively buried with the assassination of RFK.

[Fiver]

Of course you are , because it's was a Mauser they took from the TSBD . What you call fake and forgery are indeed TRUTH and Facts.

What did Oswald take to work on the morning of Nov 22, 1963?

A second fact is that the rifle on the sixth floor of the TSBD on Nov 22, 1963 had been Oswald's, and Oswald was the next-to-last party in possession of that rifle prior to the assassination. (Oswald will not have een the last party in possession of the rifle before the assassination if his intention on Nov 11 to prepare the rifle for a conveyance was accomplished.)

Care to explain how your "TRUTH and Facts" say that is was Oswald's rifle and that it wasn't Oswald's rifle?