JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

Why did the motorcade go down Elm and just head straight fo the Freeway and Trade Mart.

Heading down Elm was the way to go if you wanted to get onto the Stemmons Freeway. Main Street did not connect to the Freeway.

[Fiver]

The Plaza is a perfect kill zone so this Fact only adds to the problem of trust in any search for how it was done and whether Kennedy was professionally assassinated.

The Plaza is a poor kill zone. The target was moving. Shots from the TSBD or the Daltex were partially obscured by trees. Shots from the Grassy Knoll were obscured by trees, the sign, the stone wall, and the crowds lining the street.

[Fiver]

Having actually been to Dealy Plaza and actually stood in these spots what struck me the most were the angles and distances. As a recreational gun user with a .22 rifle with scope ( FBI registered) I would classify these shots as " professional ". These were not unprofessional shots by any stretch of any imagination. Even with a misaligned scope the head shot was not random. You would expect randomness in this case with Oswald because 1) he was out of practice with a rifle ( you don't just pick up a rifle and fire it...especially at a President. And there is no proof he practiced). 2) The Carcano firing a 6.5 mm round would have kicked adding to the complication of precision and timing. But the government will have you believe...anyone could make those shots with a scope. Even with randomness as a factor. Even by someone who at best achieved Marksmanship over 5 years earlier when practice was daily.

CBS News proved it could be done in 1967.

[Fiver]

Because it worked? Same as Ali chose a highly 'incompetent' tactic to defeat Foreman in Zaire.

A stupid plan is still stupid even if it works. (Ali's plan was not stupid, it countered Foreman's strength and exploited his weak point.)

Why would a competent Conspiracy choose Dealey Plaza over Ft Worth? Ft Worth has at least as good concealment, more distracted security, no need to lead the target, much more time to aim, a clearer field of fire, and easier escape.

[cobalt]

After the shooting these moronic plotters left themselves these things to do…

There then follows a list of strawmen, ripe for burning.

It has been pointed out on numerous occasions that the lone gunman theory is a figment of the WC imagination and no more. The assassins in Dealey Plaza set out to kill the POTUS and they succeeded. Why on earth would they care about photographs of the Grassy Knoll or direction of bullets? All they needed was a link to Cuba (Oswald) and a rifle on the 6th floor.

Johnson partly scuppered their plans by steering the lone gunman theory which, in its WC form, depoliticised the crime.

[Fiver]

Shooting from inside a high rise building, or from behind a fence, offered more concealment than anything on offer at the other two locations, Ft. Worth and the Trade Mart. Both the latter two were obvious 'hotspots' where the Security Detail would be on their mettle. By the time the motorcade was heading for the Stemmons Freeway crowds had thinned and any threat in the minds of the security men would be nearer to amber alert rather than red alert.

Security would likely relax around Dealey Plaza, so that is a point for Dealey Plaza.

Outside the Hotel Texas in Ft Worth, JFK was surrounded by high rise buildings. And standing still for several minutes on a raised platform, both of which makes for an easier target an a lot more time to aim. And there's a clearer line of sight than at Dealey Plaza. And the raised platform was surrounded by hundreds of people, which would both distract JFK's security and mean security would have to fight their way through the crowd to try to pursue a gunman.

[Herlock Sholmes]

“The fact that there was a massive head wound is obvious.”


If it’s so obvious Patrick then why did at least 6 doctors disagree? Why are those wrong? I’m sorry Patrick but you are doing what conspiracy theorists always do. You overcomplicate.

Dr. Charles Carrico was at Kennedy’s head; no one got closer. He thought that he saw a wound at the back of Kennedy’s head but he admitted that ‘absolutely’ they could have been wrong. If Carrico can easily admit of this possibility then the question has to be…why are conspiracy theorists (none of whom were there of course) so absolutely intransigent in their belief that no such mistake could have been made? I think that we all know why…it’s because their belief in conspiracy is of the level of a religious faith and all must comply to this.

In crime, we don’t discard physical evidence, the autopsy photographs and the x-rays have been proven many times to have been totally genuine. The Zapruder film is also 100% genuine and proves beyond any doubt at all that there was no wound to the back of Kennedy’s head. This is proven and no further discussion on it is needed. Those online that says it’s faked are lying. Simple as that.

The autopsy was 100% genuine. Any attempt to say that it wasn’t deserves no response because it’s a sick joke perpetrated on the public by those who seek to benefit from it.

There is not a group of conspirators in the entire history of this planet or any other (including potential parallel universes) that would have left themselves so much to do post shooting. Note Patrick, I’m not stating that it’s doubtful, I’m stating my thoughts as clearly as possible…it is physically and logically impossible for this ‘conspiracy’ to have taken place.

After the shooting these moronic plotters left themselves these things to do…



To plant prints on Oswald’s on the rifle and around the nest.

To leave three cartridges and keep their fingers crossed that no one found a fourth bullet.

According to some…remove a Mauser.

Hoped that Oswald didn’t blab.

Hoped that no one saw a non-Oswald’s shooter leave the building.

Hoped that the authorities gathered in every single photograph and cinematic film without fail.

Hoped that no one saw a Grassy Knoll gunman.

Hoped that the GK gunman didn’t hit Kennedy’s in such a way that 100% proved a shot from the front.

Hoped that no one at Parkland noticed a huge (non-existent) back of the head wound.

Convinced 3 men of high reputation to betray their country and President.

Hoped and prayed that no one ever had a rush of conscience and owned up to the plot.

Convinced the 14 pathologists that followed (including major conspiracy theorist Cyril Wecht) to betray their country and to risk their reputations in supporting the autopsy conclusions.

Hoping that no one from the HSCA had an attack of conscience and owned up to lying.

Convinced Oswald’s wife, brother and friends to support his guilt.

To frame him for the Walker assassination attempt.



No doubt we could add many more. So you would have to believe that our conspirators lumbered themselves with this categorically impossible ‘to do’ list when they could have had Kennedy killed without any of these. Simply and efficiently.

No. We cannot give this a minutes credence. Conspiracy theorist are just wrong. But how can we discuss the case properly Patrick when people keep bleating about ‘fakes’ or ‘forgeries.’ It’s like trying to explain how someone escaped by saying “what if he could fly and we didn’t notice.” Nothing is more frustrating than the fact that conspiracy theorists have created their own list of ‘get outs.’ We see this tactic online all the time. If you have no answer…label someone, call them a name. It’s an obfuscation tactic.




Common sense, respect for evidence, reason and logic tell us that Oswald killed Kennedy.

[Patrick Differ]

Herlock- since you called me out regarding Fishy's ongoing responses - I assume meaning Conspiracy Theorists v Warren Commission- I will give it a shot in the interest of civil debate.

For me the angles, timing and photographic evidence illustrate a different conclusion than the WC Report makes. In truth, the Parkland Doctors only had 20 minutes in a fruitless effort to save Kennedy surrounded by Secret Service and FBI and staff.

The fact that there was a massive head wound is obvious. In Parkland they were trying not to move the head but entrance and exit matter. The Parkland Doctors, with gunshot wound experience, they were trauma Doctors, thought the neck wound was entrance and head wound was at the temple. In Zapruder we see Kennedy grab his neck and Connally not immediately reacting. Immediate is not an easy analysis because you are dealing in 18.3 frames per second or the Zapruder film speed.

But there is another issue for me and this is an easier test. Where was Connally sitting ,, where was Kennedy sitting and where was the 6th floor window in relation to both? In other words, was there an alignment that matches the single bullet theory?
That answer is NO ! Take a look at the Photo that shows the first Large X on Elm Street in relation to the 6th Floor. It illustrates a major problem with the Single Bullet Theory
First, the angle from the 6th Floor downwards to Kennedy is 6 stories minus several feet ( bottom of Street to Kennedys back and neck)
Second, the horizontal distance to the X ( edge of 6th floor window to Kennedys back, is about 60 ft. Plus the Car orientation is perpendicular to the road putting Connally , who is sitting in front of Kennedy and like Kennedy resting an arm on the same horizontal plane, would require Connally to be offset 10 inches to the right of where he was sitting for a pass through alignment of the single bullet. Basic Geometry.
( Not only can you easy visualize this in photographs the laser scans guys proved it using digital twin technology).

In order for the single bullet to work consider the mechanical facts. A shooter firing downwards and to the left away from the window strikes Kennedys back, then moves left and up a few degrees and makes an exit out the neck In a perfectly straight trajectory ( 1/4 inch round hole in the neck) and then travels downwards again and enters Connally who is sitting directly in line with Kennedy on the horizontal plane , hits the 5th rib , exits again goes through Connallys wrist and lodges in his thigh. Then it pops out and is found on Connallys gurney.

Except Connally was not sitting 10 inches to Kennedys left. But the magic bullet was needed to explain Oswald.

The WC needed to have Oswald as the guy so the government and People could move on. I get that. But what was true?

Humes was just as frustrated as others in having to short circuit the Autopsy. He also felt pressure and was unhappy with the Autopsy sketches that he had to base his testimony on. In his words, the sketches were done by the artist who did not have access to the Autopsy photos.

For me the head shot is similar to the Single Bullet. Somehow through neck spasms the laws of Newton do not apply. The debris field matches the head direction in the Zapruder film. The government will have us believe a bullet hit Kennedy in the back and then exploded out the front at the temple. The Zapruder film shows no entrance spark or anything of that nature. But in this case, unlike the Single Pristine bullet , this bullet shatters inside the brain from compression ?
Yet the Zapruder film does not show what you originally see. A head shot to the temple forcing the head back and to the left which is seen in the film.

Humes admits the sketches were not based on Autopsy photos or xrays. Why not? Who knows?

Oswald could have been a shooter. But the Zapruder film and other photos show something else. These are not the Drones you are looking for.

[cobalt]

Fiver wrote:

So why do you feel it was necessary for anyone other than LHO to kill JD Tippit?

It's a fair question. I think we CTs tend to focus on the perceived weakness of the evidence that places Oswald at the Tippit shooting: timings, ID evidence, shell casings, Texas Theatre witnesses etc. But if not Oswald, then who and why?

We assume the Tippit killing was linked to the JFK assassination. A Dallas officer had not been killed on duty for around a dozen years so it would be one almighty coincidence for that to happen within 45 minutes of the presidential murder. The manner of the killing- more akin to a professional execution rather than a fleeing felon shooting his way out- would indicate something out of the ordinary as well. The fact that the murderer was confronted whilst apparently doing no more than walking along the sidewalk, yet felt the need to resort to violence so quickly, also lends weight to a link with the JFK assassination. So I will work on the basis that the two murders were connected.

The answer must lie in the reason why Tippit pulled up his police car and approached a member of the public. The notion that this person matched the description seems insufficient. Tippit had been driving around for about 20 minutes after this radio bulletin and must have passed half a dozen such persons: even if the walker was a rough match there had to be some further reason for Tippit to stop. He had no reason to assume an assassin from Dealey Plaza would be out for a stroll in Oak Cliff. Had Tippit been detailed to a roadblock near the crime scene, or asked to scrutinise rail and bus stations (did these basic procedures take place that day?) then that would have been a different matter. So I can't believe he nonchalantly confronted a pedestrian on wild suspicion; but then neither was this a routine stop given what transpired.

So why did Tippit stop? Well, we know his behaviour was reportedly erratic around this time. His sitting parked outside the GLOCO station- which I think predates his radio instruction to move into that general area- is well supported. The failed telephone call from the Top Ten Record shop and the hard stop of the Andrews' vehicle are not so definite but do correspond to the overall picture of the man who accelerated away from the GLOCO station. Bizarrely, Tippit was considered such a familiar presence in Oak Cliff, an area few miles from his regular beat, that some witnesses actually assumed he was a local patrol officer. Tippit had some connection with the Oak Cliff area that predated the assassination and has never been satisfactorily explained.

So who killed Tippit? I think Tippit was killed by a person connected to the JFK assassination and I don't mean Oswald obviously. I think he knew, by sight at least, the person he stopped and that person viewed Tippit as an immediate danger to the conspiracy.

But why was it necessary to kill a police officer in broad daylight? Well, once your group has shot the POTUS an officer is not such a big deal. Tippit, rather like Oswald, was beginning to realise that events had spiralled out of control and sensed a danger to himself. Both men were killed/arrested within an hour of each other reaching for a weapon. Tippit's stopping of the pedestrian was an attempt to regain some control over events, an action which was not welcomed.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Perhaps Fishy can give us an approximated time of when he will have finished posting the entire content of Gil Jesus’ website onto this thread and we can all just come back when he’s done? With other posters of both sides trying to actually discuss the case, you know…using our own thoughts, we are perhaps in danger of slowing down Fishy’s important project. When he’s finished perhaps I’ll begin cut and pasting Vince Bugliosi’s book? At 1600 pages though I’m unsure how long it will take…a couple of years at least. Then perhaps I’ll go over and clog up one of the ripper threads by cutting and pasting the entire Sourcebook or Sugden. Perhaps we can start a new thread ‘cut and pasting’ corner?

Someone makes a point or asks a question and someone replies with a direct answer (if it was in response to a question) or they give their own thoughts (if it was in response to a point)

Is this too much to expect?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Dallas Police Chief Curry believed one shot came from the front

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRAAensSkfE&t=13s&ab_channel=GilJesus

[13 secs ]

And Alex Jones believed that the Sandy Hook massacre was a conspiracy. Do you believe that he was right just because he said it and some people agreed with it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There you have it , you see the problem now dont you ,yet you cant even admit that much . Everywhere you look ,the Magic Bullet, the Fake Autopsy photos , the Mauser rifle, the Tippet killing slugs , the 4th kill shot bullet , the Grassy knoll etc etc what do the all have in common .? They all contradict and show the lies and inconsistancies of the Bogus Warren commission conspiracy which you fell for .

Two questions…

First - I ask George, Cobalt, Patrick or anyone that is on the same side of this debate as Fishy to stand up and tell me that this post of his makes any sense at all in relation to the post it’s allegedly responding to.

Fishy asked if I believed that the Parkland doctors who felt that they had seen a wound at the back of Kennedy’s head were lying, mistaken etc.

I answered the question unequivocally that I thought that they were MISTAKEN.

How can anyone reply with “there you have it…” Why no response to my answer of “mistaken?”

Perhaps Fishy now believes that witnesses can never be mistaken?

Second question - why has Fishy refused to answer my question, which was about whether he thought that those at Parkland who didn’t think that there was a wound in the back of Kennedy’s head were lying, mistaken etc… *

From experience I’m expecting Fishy to avoid answering this one…let’s see (I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt)



* Dr. Charles Baxter testified that the head exit wound was in the “temporal parietal” area.

Dr. Robert Grossman, the Neurosurgeon who accompanied Dr. William Kemp Clark into the trauma room said that the large defect he saw was “in the parietal area above the right ear.” Bugliosi, being an honest investigator, added that Grossman’s credibility on this matter might be questioned though. He elucidates in an endnote which is on the cd-Rom which accompanies his book which I don’t have the facility to read so I can’t explain further.

Dr. Adolphe Giesecke Jr testified that the exit wound extended from “ the brow line [ridge above the eye] to the occiput on the left (sic) hand side of the head.”

Dr. Marion T. Jenkins, anaesthesiologist, said he saw “a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital)”

Dr. Kenneth Salyer said that the exit wound was in the “right temporal region.”

Dr. Donald Seldin, Chairman of the Department of Medicine, said that “ the entire frontal, parietal and temporal bones were shattered….I believe that the official story is accurate in all details.”


What about the above then Fishy?

And what about Dr. Charles Carrico, one of the two main Doctors? He was asked if the doctors who said that they believed that they had seen a wound at the back of Kennedy’s head. What did he say?

ABSOLUTELY.

They clearly were mistaken. Most were nowhere near the head. The alleged wound was in an area of the head that they couldn’t have seen. We can eliminate one Doctor ….Crenshaw as a fantasist. Parkland is an empty sack.

Humes, Boswell and Finck.

Honest and correct without question.

[The Rookie Detective]

The forensics evidence shows the fatal shot came from the south knoll. I do not discount a possible almost simultaneous shot from the rear, but from a lower vantage point than the TSBD.

I agree George

[FrankO]

Hi Frank,

I'm not referring to timings. You pointed out that the hat was held at shoulder level. How can a descending shot through the back and out the front at about 15cm below the nipple manage to then hit the back of the wrist at shoulder level?

Cheers, George

Hi George,

That's precisely my point - it can't. Therefore, if Connally's wounds were all caused by one bullet only, then that must have happened when he held his right hand lower than the exit wound on his upperbody.

The best,
Frank

[FISHY1118]

Head Games --- The deliberate and fraudulent coverup of President Kennedy's head wound -- Conclusion



Part TWO

Part Three