Serial Killers, A pattern???

[DVV]

I never once suggested that Nichols was at the dock.
curious

That would have made the theory a bit less far-fetched, though.

Amitiés,
David

[curious]

Indeed,

They even talked, and Polly never said she had gone to the docks.

Amitiés,
David

David,

Apparently I'm not phrasing things so that you understand. I never once suggested that Nichols was at the dock. Just that she saw something or someone related to the fire that she should not have.

If Emily could go down to the dock and back to Whitechapel, so could other people -- who knows whom?

There was so much activity in that location, on those deadly nights, I don't think anyone can be positive they're completely unrelated.

curious

[DVV]

Following the fire she headed back there, and along the way became the last person, other than her killer, to see Polly alive.

curious

Indeed,

They even talked, and Polly never said she had gone to the docks.

Amitiés,
David

[curious]

Hi Curious, happy new year,

Polly Nichols was in Whitechapel the night she died. I don't think she had anything to do with a fire in Shadwell.

Amitiés,
David

David,

How can you be sure she didn't stumble across something or into the path of someone who was not supposed to be there?

The areas are just 2 or 3 miles apart.

Following is a quote from the Web site:

http://ripperlocations.blogspot.com/2006/10/fire-in-docks_08.html

For the poor folk of the East End there was not much by the way of entertainment to be had. If they could scrape the pennies together they could enjoy a drink at one of the many local beer houses, and there was always the Music Hall. But a good fire was a real draw, something the always gathered a crowd of spectators. One of these, at the Shadwell fire, was Emily Holland, who until just over a week earlier had been sharing a room with Polly Nichols at the Thrawl Street lodging house.

Following the fire she headed back there, and along the way became the last person, other than her killer, to see Polly alive.

end of that quote.

If Emily were coming back to White Chapel from Shadwell, who knows how many others were too?

I don't know that that happened. However, the deaths occurred when other major events were also occurring --- did they tie together? I don't know. Just observing here.

curious

[DVV]

If that were the case, it would seem to me that a simple execution would have been in order, but who knows?

curious

Hi Curious, happy new year,

Polly Nichols was in Whitechapel the night she died. I don't think she had anything to do with a fire in Shadwell.

Amitiés,
David

[corey123]

Curious,

If that were the case then there would be a simple cut throat.

Strides death could work with it however.

[curious]

Hello curious,

Happy New Year!

It was, I believe, known that Jenkinson DID have undercover people on the ground in Whitechapel. Anderson too!

best wishes

Phil

Happy New Year, Phil!

Yes, I had read that and searched for threads about Jenkinson.

Another thought has occurred to me -- Polly Nichols was killed the night of the dock fire; Stride and Eddowes the night of the Post Office Robbery -- what if the women were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and witnessed something or someone they should not have seen?

If that were the case, it would seem to me that a simple execution would have been in order, but who knows?

curious

[Phil Carter]

Fenians hiding in the East End, overheard by a prostitute who might go to the authorities for a few pence reward, might get rid of the eavesdropper.


Curious

Hello curious,

Happy New Year!

It was, I believe, known that Jenkinson DID have undercover people on the ground in Whitechapel. Anderson too!

best wishes

Phil

[curious]

The Fenians were more or less a nationalistic movement, and would most likely attack Anglo-targets or institutions, primarily by bombings. Additionally, they would annouce their activities to draw attention to their cause. In fact, they would probably be hiding in the East End/Whitechappel areas, and that area would be the last place they would like to attract the attention of the Met, or, worse, Special Branch.

Hi, Gman,

welcome.

I agree with you that killing prostitutes does not appear to advance a national cause.

And Corey, I see your point that when making statements the Fenians used bombs. The IRA continued that tradition into the 20th century.

The only place I would see to disagree is if someone got in the way of that national cause or threatened a mission. I think the individual(s) would be removed without a qualm -- perhaps using a method already being used in the neighborhood. The copycat killing is not designed to call attention to the movement, but to hide behind a disguise.

Fenians hiding in the East End, overheard by a prostitute who might go to the authorities for a few pence reward, might get rid of the eavesdropper.

On the other hand, I wonder if it's not possible that a Fenian operative hiding in the East End might not be killed by the government if his/her allegiance with the Fenians were to be discovered.

For either of those groups, who wanted the individual eliminated, using a method already being used by someone in the neighborhood would not draw attention to themselves, but would successfully eliminate a threat.

again, welcome to the threads.

I have no personal theory, am just using these boards to explore possibilities.

Curious

[corey123]

Gman,

first of all welcom to the forums,

thanks for the introduction to Fenian activitys .

Do you think the killings to be the work of a serial killer or a group of seperate killers?

[Gman992]

The Fenians were more or less a nationalistic movement, and would most likely attack Anglo-targets or institutions, primarily by bombings. Additionally, they would annouce their activities to draw attention to their cause. In fact, they would probably be hiding in the East End/Whitechappel areas, and that area would be the last place they would like to attract the attention of the Met, or, worse, Special Branch.

[corey123]

Rouge

Or It could just be a rouge Fenian out to make a statment against prostitution.

If I were a terrorist I would more likely, like the previous Fenian accounts, attack the police or higher class citizens, not those of those classes. I would let the prostitutes corrupt sociaty, not Help the police with ridding them the trouble of stopping such practices.

yours truly

[corey123]

Fenians

I found some evidence to push away the idea of Fenian involvment in the murders.

Their activities included the Clerkenwell Bombing in 1867, in which 12 people were killed and 126 injured as the Fenians attempted to rescue two of their members.
In 1883 Scotland Yard received an anonymous letter threatening to 'blow Superintendent Williamson off his stool' and dynamite all the public buildings in London on 30 May 1884. On the predicted night, shortly before 9pm, the CID and Special Irish Branch headquarters were indeed successfully bombed, although since the building was empty only neighbours and a cabman were injured by shattered glass. The bomb was concealed in a cast-iron urinal on the corner of a detached building in the centre of Great Scotland Yard which now housed the CID. Williamson's office was completely destroyed. That same night, bombs went off in the basement of the Carlton Club and outside Sir Watkin Wynne's house, and an unexploded bomb was found at the foot of Nelson's column.


So the methodology of the Fenians is almost ALWAYS bombing, so i doubt they would all of a sudden change to the methodology found in the whitechapel murders.

Just some thoughts


Info courtisy of http://www.met.police.uk/history/fenians.htm

[corey123]

Sox,

If you had read all the posts you may realize Mike doesnt believe in Jack the ripper or the canonicles at all, and this isnt really a free discussion thread it is a one pertaining to patterns in the mental or behavioral state of a serial killer.

they have full right to post on MY thread as this is, and so do you.

By the way the constable tag doesnt make you seem less knowledgable, I listen to everyones posts, no matter the status.

yours truly

[Sox]

There are alot of expert Ripperologist that post here. Steward P. Evans as an example.

I am well aware of who posts here, do not let the constable tag fool you, I have been here a long time. I have the utmost respect for everyone here but that does not mean I regard them all as experts, far from it.

I listen with great interest to people like Michael, for example, who put forward theories that Mary Kelly was not one of the C5, but posting a theory on a free discussion forum is a billion miles from producing a well researched & credible reason why Kelly could not have been killed by the Whitechapel Killer.

Please do not mistake doubt for disrespect.