Serial Killers, A pattern???

[DVV]

Hello Corey. Since this is your thread, and since such discussion seems off topic, it would be best NOT to answer here. I have no desire to disrupt any other poster's thread.

LC

What about making it this way:

"Fenian serial killers: a pattern ?"

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

Guys, Mike,Lynn,Phil,Joel.The Fenian gang. Just kidding.

Anyways, I would like my questions answered when you have the time.

Thanks

like i said previously, i dont think it had anything to do with the fenians.

[corey123]

Lynn,

thats the past. Honestly, answer here. Mike,Joel,David,and the rest are still conversing about the fenian idea. Im ok if you dont want to answer them on here. I am sure Phil or Mike could. I am going to go eat, but if none of them have replied(including you)I will PM you.

Thanks Lynn.

[lynn cates]

yes/no

Hello Corey. The last time you said that, you got part way through then decided it was off topic. There is no reason for me to waste your time and mine and go off thread topic again.

If you choose to PM me, I shall be happy to reply--given time constraints. But please keep it simple, one question at a time. An old man distracts easily.

I now return your thread lest I be accused of hijacking.

The best.
LC

[corey123]

Lynn,

It is my thread. I have let this conversation carry on on this thread. Please do answer on here.

If I wanted private answers I could have asked in PM.

However if you want to Pm the answers just tell me. But if not, I would prefer you put them on this thread.

Thanks Lynn.

[lynn cates]

thread topic

Hello Corey. Since this is your thread, and since such discussion seems off topic, it would be best NOT to answer here. I have no desire to disrupt any other poster's thread.

If, however, you seek answers to some questions, please feel free to PM me.

The best.
LC

[corey123]

Answers

Guys, Mike,Lynn,Phil,Joel.The Fenian gang. Just kidding.

Anyways, I would like my questions answered when you have the time.

Thanks

[corey123]

David,

I too agree that it was a serial murderer.

Mike,

I have some issues with your theory, as you may know. Some questions I need answered.
1) If you are saying that Kate and Kelly were killed by the Fenians, why take the organs? Fenians never had a problem revieling themselves before a fenian attack so why try to confuse them now? If they were killed by the fenians, and they were part of this anti-fenian opperation as you suggest, then the police would already know their deaths were by the fenians. So again, why hide it?
2)How do you explain the other "Ripper style" murders AFTER Kelly?
3)Why would they make Kellys murder seem different than the rest? It was different, more carnage than precise mutilation. How would they know this type of killer would increase his mutalent violence as the murders progressed? As far as I know, they would'nt.

Phil,

You asked me to continue to question your idea. Here it is.

thanks.

[DVV]

Why would you assume that if Fenians were involved the killings were simply random murders, that might have occurred anywhere across London?

Im not aware that the killings as some kind of "campaign of terror" in the East End has been suggested, nor that the recent suggestions infer all the alleged Ripper killings might have Fenian based motivations....I do believe that the climate in the east End from 1887 through 1889 had a distinctly socio-political upheaval scent to it...and within that context these Ripper events might have been of some real value to a radical anarchist movement. When we know for a fact that political bombings and assassination attempt existed in 87 and 88, set against the political structures locally, Its not that hard to surmise the events, the fear and the attention could be "used" in some subversive manner.

Best regards

Hi Mike,

I wasn't reffering to your "theory" especially... rather to what seems to predominate in some current discussions (and whatever my views, I'm glad to read and participate, as always).

I agree that the political background is interesting and has to be taken in consideration, although I'm still convinced that the Ripper was a lone serial killer.

Amitiés mon cher (pas la peine de se fâcher pour si peu!),
David

[Sox]

precisely why would al quaeda kill civilians by crashing planes into buildings, or the ira to blow up pubs or shopping centres in mainland britain?.

He isn't talking about modern terrorist tactics, he is talking about the Fenian Brotherhood in 1888. These Militants focused on freeing their brothers from prison, targeting establishment buildings & establishment figures, what they did not do was make war on civilians. Those tactics would not begin to be readily employed until 1916 & not by The Fenians.

I do believe that the climate in the east End from 1887 through 1889 had a distinctly socio-political upheaval scent to it.

Almost every major city in England has had this kind of climate in some degree, for almost as long as there have been socialists. Irish freedom fighters have, over the years, been responsible for many an atrocity, but in 1888 you are talking about the kind of men that followed the flag up to Marye's Heights, or stormed the line at Bloody Lane.

'Terrorists' (for want of a better word) in 1888 were still idealists, first and foremost, they were not yet the extremists of later years. I can readily believe that they may have used the press (as the socialists did) but I find the idea that Eddowes/Kelly were killed as informants in such a way as to make them seem part of a series of brutal murders, to be extremely far fetched. On a par with the Royal Heir theory, sorry but that is my opinion...but good luck with it all the same.

[corey123]

Mike,

Im sorry, no offense to you or Lynn,but your theorys about fenians are sounding the more impossible the more you speak about them. Really why would terrorists kill two or three women?? They NEVER heard anything about the fenians and IF they did they would most likely be killed simpily, not overkill. The way they were killed was to creat fear from a personaly vendretta the killer had with prostitutes. Im sorry but your theory makes NO sense. I even read that you are trying to say Dr.T was a Fenian. SERIOUSLY?On what claims? That he moved away to america after the murder of Mary Kelly and a senior offical went to tract him down? Does that make someone a Fenian now?

Good lord.

The best thing a group of Fenian/Socialists rippers would had to do, if all these theories have some ground, was to kill in various places over London, then over England and Great Britain.
The Ripper didn't kill in October, then killed indoors.
He was an individual with limited means, who perfectly knew how risky was his business.

Amitiés,
David

Why would you assume that if Fenians were involved the killings were simply random murders, that might have occurred anywhere across London?

Im not aware that the killings as some kind of "campaign of terror" in the East End has been suggested, nor that the recent suggestions infer all the alleged Ripper killings might have Fenian based motivations....I do believe that the climate in the east End from 1887 through 1889 had a distinctly socio-political upheaval scent to it...and within that context these Ripper events might have been of some real value to a radical anarchist movement. When we know for a fact that political bombings and assassination attempt existed in 87 and 88, set against the political structures locally, Its not that hard to surmise the events, the fear and the attention could be "used" in some subversive manner.

Best regards

[c.d.]

Hi Joel,

I was watching a program on the stock market collapse of 1929 which brought on the Depression in America. A group of four or five wealthy individuals would buy a large number of shares in a stock. They would then pay newspapers to report that a large number of shares had been purchased by "people in the know." Regular people would read that and purchase shares themselves. This made the price of the stock go up. The newspapers would tout that so that more people would buy it and drive the price even higher. When the price was way higher than it should be the original group would sell their shares and the stock price would plummet. Apparently this was not an uncommon practice and a number of the newspapers would be involved in it.

c.d.

[DVV]

The best thing a group of Fenian/Socialists rippers would had to do, if all these theories have some ground, was to kill in various places over London, then over England and Great Britain.
The Ripper didn't kill in October, then killed indoors.
He was an individual with limited means, who perfectly knew how risky was his business.

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

a very interesting point. in actual fact the oxford handbook of criminology only mentions jack the ripper once (second edition, oxford university press, 1997, p 62). clive emsley mentions the murders whilst explaining the way in which newspapers and magazines would exploit violent crime in order to sell copies ... 'or for some crusading, legislative purpose. the image of jack the ripper is a good example of the former. ... the panic about the ripper spread far and wide both geographically and socially.'

incidentally, wasnt it a couple of journalists who are believed to have written a good proportion of the ripper letters?