JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

[FONT=Calibri][FONT=Times New Roman]The problem with the JFK case is that what is often called ‘evidence’ is not really that at all. None of the evidence against Oswald was ever tested in cross examination with a defence lawyer to put his case. In fact there was no accurate record taken of what he said when in custody. So the case against Oswald lacks authentic evidence and cannot properly presented.

The case against Oswald has plenty of authentic evidence.
* The Caracano was Oswald's. We have his handwriting on the order form. We have photographs of Oswald with the Carcano that were taken by his wife using Oswald's camera. One photo had a note in Owald's handwriting on the back. Fibers from his shirt match those found on the rifle.
* Oswald's prints were on boxes at the sniper's nest, the paper bag, and the rifle itself.
* Fibers from the blanket that Oswald kept his Carcano in matched fibers found in the paper bag.
* Oswald's Carcano was the weapon used to kill JFK. The shell casings match the Carcano. The bullets and bullet fragments match the Carcano.

All of this forensic evidence was confirmed by police forensic experts and the FBI forensic experts.

* An eyewitness, Howard Brennan, saw a white man of Oswald's approximate weight and build firing from the snipers nest. When he saw a police lineup, Brennan said that Oswald looked like the man he saw, but could not positively identify him.
* Several other eyewitnesses saw a man in the snipers nest or a rifle extending from it, but none provided as good of a description.

* Oswald had no alibi. He claimed to have been in the domino room, but several of his coworkers testified to being in the domino room during that time and said that Oswald was not there.

Oswald's behavior was not that of an innocent man.
* When confronted by a police officer with a drawn gun on the second floor, he showed no curiousity as to why the police officer did that.
* He is the only Book Depository employee who left the building after the shooting.
* He had a taxi driver drop him several blocks from his house.
* When apprehended in the theater, Oswald tried to shoot the police with his pistol.
* In custody he lied repeatedly.

The case against Oswald in the killing of Officer Tippett is even stronger.
* Tippet asked the police dispatcher to repeat the description of JFK's killer just before he pulled over the man who killed him.
* Multiple witnesses who saw the killing of Officer Tippet or the killer fleeing the scene picked Oswald out of a police lineup.
* The discarded cartridge casings came from Oswald's pistol. They were a mix of two different brands of bullets.
* The bullets in Tippet's body came from Oswald's pistol. They were a mix of the same two brands of bullets.
* The jacket discarded by the killer was identified by Marina Oswald as belonging to her husband.
* When apprehended at the theater, Oswald tried to shoot one of the arresting officers.
* The bullets found in Oswald's pistol and his pocket were the same two brands of shells.

The case against Oswald against trying to murder General Walker is the weakest.
* Marina Oswald testified that her husband tried to kill the general.
* On the night that Walker was shot at, Oswald left his wife a note on what to do if he was "alive and taken prisoner".
* The bullet was too badly damaged to get a ballistics match, but it was determined to be the same type of bullet that killed JFK.
* Five photographs of the Walker residence were found in Oswald's effects.

As a result we have to rely on an FBI investigation which was very thorough but had been instructed politically to close the debate down. An exhaustive search of the Warren files (as compared with original statements to the DPD) shows the FBI shaping statements to that end.

The Warren Commission was not an FBI investigation. The Commission did its own interviews. Forensics evidence was checked by multiple police departments, not just the FBI. That said, the FBI certainly tried to cover their behinds on their failure to identify Oswald as a threat.

The same problem is seen in testimony secured by people like Mark Lane and Jim Garrison who, like the FBI, did excellent work, but were tailoring the evidence to fit their own agenda - in their case support of Oswald.

Jim Garrison was a loony who thought the JFK assassination was a "homosexual thrill killing". His case against Clay Shaw was so flimsy that it only took the jury 45 minutes to acquit Shaw.

[Fiver]

It was Fiver.

He overstated Oswald's actual age by two years and claimed that Brennan estimated it correctly.

I never said that Brennan estimated Oswald's age correctly.

Please stop making false claims about what I said.

[Fiver]

"He was a white man in his early 30’s ... He had on light colored clothing." - Howard Brennan

Oswald was 5'9, ... 26 years old. Brennan gave an accurate description.

(Fiver, # 2211)

Howard Brennan's description of the man did not match Oswald.

He described a man about eight years older and wearing different coloured clothing.

(PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR1, # 2219)

Oswald was 5'9, slender build, 26 years old. Brennan gave an accurate description.

"He was a white man in his early 30’s, ... He had on light colored clothing" - Howard Brennan

(Fiver, # 2220)

Anyone can view the original statement made by Howard Brennan on the day of the assassination and see that what I wrote is correct:

Howard Brennan's description of the man did not match Oswald.

He described a man about eight years older and wearing different coloured clothing.

((PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR1, # 2229)


It was not I who brought up Brennan's description of Oswald.

It was Fiver.

He overstated Oswald's actual age by two years and claimed that Brennan estimated it correctly.

When I pointed out that Brennan overstated it by about eight years, Fiver repeated his error and Herlock entered the fray, dismissing my objection on the ground that you can't accurately estimate a person's age.

That was after the person he was defending - Fiver - had claimed that Brennan HAD accurately estimated it!

It is remarkable how often facts no longer matter when a certain poster - PI 1 - is proven right.

How about the colour or shade of Oswald's shirt?

Don't tell me you can't expect a witness to tell the difference between light and dark, either!

I did get Oswald's age wrong, but you repeatedly selectively quote me, skipping those parts show Brennan provided an accurate description of Oswald.


Oswald was 5'9, slender build, 24 years old.

"He was a white man in his early 30’s, slender, nice looking, slender and would weight about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but definitely not a suit." - Howard Brennan

The police report given based in Brennan's description was "White male, approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, 165 pounds."

Officer Tippett asked the dispatcher to repeat that description just before he stopped Oswald.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

"He was a white man in his early 30’s ... He had on light colored clothing." - Howard Brennan

Oswald was 5'9, ... 26 years old. Brennan gave an accurate description.

(Fiver, # 2211)

Howard Brennan's description of the man did not match Oswald.

He described a man about eight years older and wearing different coloured clothing.

(PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR1, # 2219)

Oswald was 5'9, slender build, 26 years old. Brennan gave an accurate description.

"He was a white man in his early 30’s, ... He had on light colored clothing" - Howard Brennan

(Fiver, # 2220)

Anyone can view the original statement made by Howard Brennan on the day of the assassination and see that what I wrote is correct:

Howard Brennan's description of the man did not match Oswald.

He described a man about eight years older and wearing different coloured clothing.

((PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR1, # 2229)


It was not I who brought up Brennan's description of Oswald.

It was Fiver.

He overstated Oswald's actual age by two years and claimed that Brennan estimated it correctly.

When I pointed out that Brennan overstated it by about eight years, Fiver repeated his error and Herlock entered the fray, dismissing my objection on the ground that you can't accurately estimate a person's age.

That was after the person he was defending - Fiver - had claimed that Brennan HAD accurately estimated it!

It is remarkable how often facts no longer matter when a certain poster - PI 1 - is proven right.

How about the colour or shade of Oswald's shirt?

Don't tell me you can't expect a witness to tell the difference between light and dark, either!

[cobalt]

Hi OR,

A fresh mind is always to be welcomed.

The problem with the JFK case is that what is often called ‘evidence’ is not really that at all. None of the evidence against Oswald was ever tested in cross examination with a defence lawyer to put his case. In fact there was no accurate record taken of what he said when in custody. So the case against Oswald lacks authentic evidence and cannot properly presented.

As a result we have to rely on an FBI investigation which was very thorough but had been instructed politically to close the debate down. An exhaustive search of the Warren files (as compared with original statements to the DPD) shows the FBI shaping statements to that end.

The same problem is seen in testimony secured by people like Mark Lane and Jim Garrison who, like the FBI, did excellent work, but were tailoring the evidence to fit their own agenda - in their case support of Oswald.

Rather than find common ground to argue from, the debate tends towards tribalism and it is not always easy to find some light amidst the heat. But I wish you all the best.

[OneRound]

Brennan’s police statement:

I was facing in a northerly direction looking across not only at Elm Street but I could see the large red brick building across the street from where I was sitting. I take this building across the street to be about 7 stories anyway in the east end of the building and the second row of windows from the top I saw a man in this window. I had seen him before the President’s car arrived. He was just sitting up there looking down apparently waiting for the same thing I was to see the President. I did not notice anything unusual about this man. He was a white man in his early 30’s, slender, nice looking, slender and would weight about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but definitely not a suit. I proceeded to watch the President’s car as it turned left at the corner where I was and about 50 yards from the intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say the President’s back was in line with the last window I have previously described I heard what I thought was a backfire. It run in my mind that it might be someone throwing firecrackers out the window of the red brick building and I looked up at the building. I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking aim with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun. I do not know if it had a scope on it or not. I was looking at the man in this window at the time of the last explosion. Then this man let the gun down to his side and stepped down out of sight. He did not seem to be in any hurry. I could see this man from about his belt up. There was nothing unusual about him at all in appearance. I believe that I could identify this man if I ever saw him again.

Oswald had a white shirt on when arrested. Where is your issue? Please stop mentioning the age. It’s beyond silly. It’s impossible to tell an 8 year difference in someone’s age. Just forget the age.

Hi folks - I've done far less reading on this subject than many of you and so was unsure of Oswald's age. I note from wikipedia that he was only just 24 at the time of Kennedy's murder. That was a surprise as he looks a fair bit older than that to me in contemporary photos and film. In line with the highlighted part of Herlock's post, that surely is the relevant factor here rather than how old he actually was.

As something of an aside, does my comparative lack of reading help or hinder? I'm actually inclined to feel the former and would respectfully suggest the possibility of being ''unable to see the woods for the trees'' be considered.

Best regards,
OneRound

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see photos of Oswald's shirt below.

Oswald had a white shirt on when arrested. Where is your issue? Please stop mentioning the age. It’s beyond silly. It’s impossible to tell an 8 year difference in someone’s age. Just forget the age.

WH16_CE_150.pdf

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think they should stay off the Apologist theory websites P.I. .

You are dead right

Stick to reading Mark Lane or about your wonderful witnesses like Beverley Oliver, Jean Hill, Ed Kaufman, Phil Willis, Dr McClelland and Gordon Arnold. I’ll leave it at that, unless you want a longer list of proven fantasists.

No such fantasists on the lone gunman side.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Anyone can view the original statement made by Howard Brennan on the day of the assassination and see that what I wrote is correct:


Howard Brennan's description of the man did not match Oswald.

He described a man about eight years older and wearing different coloured clothing.


My critics have been claiming that Oswald wore a brown shirt that day, not light-coloured clothing.

Oswald had recently turned 24, about eight years younger than someone in his early thirties, exactly as I had written.

Your critics?

Talk about an ego issue.

Stick to the facts PI. That’s what I’m doing.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Anyone can view the original statement made by Howard Brennan on the day of the assassination and see that what I wrote is correct:


Howard Brennan's description of the man did not match Oswald.

He described a man about eight years older and wearing different coloured clothing.


My critics have been claiming that Oswald wore a brown shirt that day, not light-coloured clothing.

Oswald had recently turned 24, about eight years younger than someone in his early thirties, exactly as I had written.

Brennan’s police statement:

I was facing in a northerly direction looking across not only at Elm Street but I could see the large red brick building across the street from where I was sitting. I take this building across the street to be about 7 stories anyway in the east end of the building and the second row of windows from the top I saw a man in this window. I had seen him before the President’s car arrived. He was just sitting up there looking down apparently waiting for the same thing I was to see the President. I did not notice anything unusual about this man. He was a white man in his early 30’s, slender, nice looking, slender and would weight about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but definitely not a suit. I proceeded to watch the President’s car as it turned left at the corner where I was and about 50 yards from the intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say the President’s back was in line with the last window I have previously described I heard what I thought was a backfire. It run in my mind that it might be someone throwing firecrackers out the window of the red brick building and I looked up at the building. I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking aim with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun. I do not know if it had a scope on it or not. I was looking at the man in this window at the time of the last explosion. Then this man let the gun down to his side and stepped down out of sight. He did not seem to be in any hurry. I could see this man from about his belt up. There was nothing unusual about him at all in appearance. I believe that I could identify this man if I ever saw him again.

Oswald had a white shirt on when arrested. Where is your issue? Please stop mentioning the age. It’s beyond silly. It’s impossible to tell an 8 year difference in someone’s age. Just forget the age.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Great, now just show us where the FBI accepted that in an official memo or document or statement?

FBI agent Sebastian F. Latona identified the prints. Arthur Mandalla of the Dallas Police checked his work and came to exactly the same conclusion. This is their testimony before the Warren Commission

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh4/pdf/WH4_Latona.pdf

Latona’s work was also checked by Ronald G. Wittmus also of the FBI. He agreed 100% with Latona’s conclusions. This is his affidavit of June 30th 1964:

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Wittmus_aff.pdf

Can we expect your usual period of ‘ignoring’ that we get when you’re proven wrong. Good night Fishy.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Oswald was 5'9, slender build, 26 years old. Brennan gave an accurate description.

"He was a white man in his early 30’s, slender, nice looking, slender and would weight about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but definitely not a suit." - Howard Brennan

The police report given based in Brennan's description was "White male, approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, 165 pounds."

Officer Tippett asked the dispatcher to repeat that description just before he stopped Oswald.

Anyone can view the original statement made by Howard Brennan on the day of the assassination and see that what I wrote is correct:


Howard Brennan's description of the man did not match Oswald.

He described a man about eight years older and wearing different coloured clothing.


My critics have been claiming that Oswald wore a brown shirt that day, not light-coloured clothing.

Oswald had recently turned 24, about eight years younger than someone in his early thirties, exactly as I had written.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes "some ". Others who were discarded contradicted the WC so were never heard from.

And yet you appear to be incapable of putting a name to any of these ‘others.’

[FISHY1118]

According to sworn affidavits, and radio and television reports, it was a Mauser.

(PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1)


Stop believing the lies CT websites tell you.

(Fiver)



Anyone can view online the original affidavit signed by Seymour Weitzman, describing the rifle as a 7.65 Mauser, and the television reports announcing the same, and hear the radio reports giving the same information.

That is the truth.

What you have written is completely and demonstrably untrue.

I think they should stay off the Apologist theory websites P.I. .

You are dead right

[FISHY1118]

Some of the "witnesses" who were not called by the WC or the HSCA had been looked at, and were determined to have no valid evidence-- that's why they were left off the roster of verified witnesses. And, yes, it's a long list.

Yes "some ". Others who were discarded contradicted the WC so were never heard from.