JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

He had been side lined by JFK who was intent on breaking up his beloved CIA. After the assassination the CIA could act with impunity.

Dulles had been sidelined, but JFK was not intent on breaking up the CIA. The CIA did not act with impunity under LBJ, McCone quit because LBJ wouldn't listen when the CIA said the bombing in Vietnam was not working and expanding the war would be a good idea.

[FrankO]

The Zapruder film is treated like a buffet table by conspiracy theorists Frank. They believe that the head movement (ignoring the forward movement of course) proves that there was a shot from the front despite an army of experts explaining to the contrary and yet when it’s pointed out that the film clearly shows that there was no wound to the back of Kennedy’s head they shout “fake!”

Yes Mike, I find it hard to understand how some can use the Z-film in support of a point they want to make and then, when that very point is countered by something or some things that is/are to be seen in that film, they say they trust other evidence over the film, that some frame or other is not what it looks like or try to make some point by stating that it was only 18.3 frames per second.

If the film is to be fake or tampered with, then, indeed, why did they leave in the initial forward movement of the president's head immediately after the fatal shot, why didn’t they erase Connally’s right hand & hat after frame 224 or instead add blood on his hand? Why not go all the way with it while they were at it?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I thought that I’d make a suggestion to help Fishy avoid the taxing effort of cutting and pasting the entirety of Gil Jesus’s website onto here by posting this link.

https://gil-jesus.com/:2thumbsup:

No need to thank me.

And by the way, the answer to the question on the link is…yes he was.

[FISHY1118]

SO I GUESS WHEN SOME POSTERS SAY ''WITNESSES SAW OSWALD SHOOT TIPPIT'' WE CAN SAFELY SAY, THAT IS NOT A ''FACT ''.




The Tippit Witnesses: A "Positive Identification" ?


What a lot of people don't realize is how important clothing is to the "positive identification" of a suspect. Unless you can prove that the suspect changed clothes AFTER committing the crime, the identification of a suspect's clothes is secondary only to facial recognition in a witness' identification of a suspect.

So how did the Tippit witnesses fare in identifying Oswald's clothing as those worn by the killer

( A note for the newbies: Keep in mind that Oswald's tan jacket is Commission Exhibit 162, his blue jacket is Commission Exhibit 163 and the shirt he was arrested in is Commission Exhibit 150. )


The Jacket

Helen Louise Markham

Mr. BALL. I have here an exhibit, Commission Exhibit 162, a jacket. Did you ever see this before ?

Mrs. MARKHAM. No I did not. ( 3 H 312 )



Barbara Jeanette Davis

Mr. BALL. I have a jacket, I would like to show you, which is Commission Exhibit 162. Does this look anything like the jacket that the man had on that was going across your lawn ?

Mrs. DAVIS. No sir. ( 3 H 347 )



Virginia Davis testified that the killer wore a "light brown tan jacket" ( 6 H 457 ) but she was never shown CE 162 and asked to identify it.

Domingo Benavides identified Oswald's BLUE jacket ( CE 163 ) as the one the killer wore. ( 6 H 453 )

William Scoggins testified that CE 162 was too light and the killer's jacket was darker. ( 3 H 328 )

When shown the CE 162 jacket, Ted Callaway testified that he thought the killer's jacket "had a little more tan to it". ( 3 H 356 )

William Arthur Smith remembered that the killer wore "..a sport coat of some kind...." ( 7 H 85 )


The Commission failed to mention in its Report that witnesses had described the Tippit killer's jacket as a sport jacket, dark in color and of a rough fabric, all descriptions that did not match the jacket in evidence.

The Commission also failed to report that this same group of witnesses failed to identify Oswald's shirt ( CE 150 ) as the one the killer wore.


The Shirt

Mr. BALL. I show a shirt here, which is Exhibit 150. Did you ever see a shirt the color of this ?

Mrs. MARKHAM. The shirt that this man had, it was a lighter looking shirt than that. ( 3 H 312 )



Mr. BALL. I show you a shirt, which is Commission Exhibit 150. Was that---does that shirt look like something he had on, that the man had on who went across your lawn ?

Mrs. DAVIS. I thought that the shirt he had on was lighter than that. ( 3 H 347 )



Benavides testified that Tippit's killer wore a dark shirt but he didn't know what color. He was never asked to identify CE 150 as the shirt he saw.

Callaway, Virginia Davis and Scoggins could not identify the CE 150 shirt as the shirt Tippit's killer was wearing because they all claimed to have not been able to see the shirt.

So these seven witnesses ( including William Smith ), who the Commission counted among those who made a "positive identification" of Oswald as the killer of Officer J.D. Tippit, never made a positive identifcation of his clothing.

In addition, three Jefferson Ave. witnesses who saw the gunman as he fled the Tippit murder, L.J. Lewis, B.M. Patterson and Harold Russell, were never called to testify.

A fourth Jefferson Ave. witness, Warren Reynolds did testify and in spite of his alleged observance and following of the man with the gun, he was never shown the shirt and jacket and asked to identify them.

That's eleven witnesses who saw the man who executed Tippit and did not identify Oswald's jacket and shirt as those worn by the killer.

And as I said before, if you can't positively identify the suspect's clothing, you can't positively identify the suspect.

Unless you can prove that he changed his clothes after the murder, which he didn't.

The FBI was careful which witnesses it selected to appear before the Commission and Commission Counsel was careful not to ask certain questions of witnesses.

And under those circumstances, the evidence indicates that Tippit's killer was not Oswald.

158 of 928. 770 PAGES OF ACTUAL EVIDENCE TO GO .

[FISHY1118]

Let's see... strap attachment moves from the side to the bottom, rifle changes length from catalog to shipment, rifle changes from 7.65 Mauser to 6.5 Mannlicher Carcano, misaligned scope becomes accurate, Oswald's palmprints appear only after his death, worn strap becomes new again...

No wonder they call CE 399 the Magic Bullet. It came from a magic rifle.


A white jacket that becomes tan.

.38 auto shells that become .38 specials.

An automatic pistol that becomes a revolver.


More nonsense from the MOE , LARRY , CURLY COMMISSION ?

[FISHY1118]

The Dallas Police executed a search warrant on Saturday, November 23, 1963 at the home of Ruth Paine. During that search, police claimed to have found pictures of Oswald with a rifle and handgun in a holster on his hip. ( Stovall Exhibit D ) But the itemized list of things they recovered during that search ( Stovall Exhibit B ) does not include the photographs or negatives, or an ad from Klein's they recovered showing the alleged murder weapon. Why not ?



Not only are they missing from the evidence list, photographs of the evidence recovered show no "backyard photographs" or ads for Klein's. Why not ?













So are we to believe that they had this rock solid evidence linking Oswald to the rifle and the handgun, both murder weapons, and they didn't even put them on the evidence list and didn't even photograph them with the rest of the evidence they confiscated ?

Whos running this Warren Commission nonsense MOE , LARRY ,AND CURLY ??????

[Fiver]

Knott used the 360 3D Digital Scanner not the P20.

Knott also used frame 225 of the Zapruder film, even though JFK was clearly hit some time before frame 224. Who cares how good their equipment is when they're ignoring the actual evidence.

[Fiver]

I really have no idea, I have no experience whatsoever with guns/rifles and am no ballistic expert.

Neither am I, but Michael Haag and Luke Haag are.

NOVA has a good documentary.

[Fiver]

Oliver Stone and some others appeared before Congress yesterday and testified that the CIA has it's hands all over this case and they believe they can prove Oswald was innocent.

Nobody needs to discredit Oliver Stone. Stone discredits himself with his repeated lies in JFK.

Zack Snyder's 300 looks like a documentary in comparison with Stone's JFK.

[Fiver]

Why was one bullet pristine and one completely fragmented? Because it hit bone? Like a rib or a wrist? Two explanations for the same bullet type? Bone does not equal bone.

This has been covered before.

One bullet struck the skull. Beveling in the skull shows the bullet entered from the rear. The skull shattered in a way that also shows entry from the rear. Two major and several minor fragments were found. Neutron activation testing matched these fragments. One of the major fragments had rifling that proved that the bullet was fired from Oswald's gun.

One bullet struck JFK's upper back. Forensic examination of the wound and JFK's clothing show that the back wound was an entry wound. The bullet then exited JFK's throat, passing through flesh not bone. Testing with ballistic gelatin proves a Carcano bullet fired through ballistic gelatin, which simulates flesh, will cause the bullet to begin to tumble end over end. Connally's clothing and his back wound show he was struck i the back by a tumbling bullet. The stretcher bullet, which is not pristine, is significantly flattened, constant with a tumbling bullet striking Connally's rib and then his wrist side on while tumbling. Neutron activation testing matched the bullet fragments in Connally's wrist to the stretcher bullet. Rifling on the stretcher bullet proved it was fired from Oswald's gun.

[cobalt]

Dullles gained nothing from JFK's assassination.

He had been side lined by JFK who was intent on breaking up his beloved CIA. After the assassination the CIA could act with impunity.

McCloy gained nothing from JFK's assassination.

He was free to destabilise various governments thereafter and further enrich himself. The murky dealings both he and Dulles had enjoyed with the Third Reich remained in the shadows.

And feel free to present evidence that McCloy was initially skeptical about the Lone Gunman theory.

Feel free to use the browser device on your internet connection. Not that McCloy's conversion should be much of a problem for WC disciples. Better a sinner who repents after all.

But we have plenty of evidence that Oswald did go to Mexico and a Conspiracy would have no motive and no need to impersonate him.

Your understanding of how a conspiracy works may not be comprehensive. The impersonation of Oswald was a bit more than an unfortunate student prank. The point of the bogus call was establish a link between Oswald and the KGB, specifically an officer called Kostikov from memory, who was allegedly head of an assassination unit. The fact this 'prank' call took place around two months before the JFK assassination speaks for itself. It also suggests the fake caller was aware that US intelligence intercepted and recorded calls made to foreign embassies in Mexico City. This indicates inside knowledge by the conspirators.

If JFK had still been alive when the Gulf of Tonkin Incident happened, he would have escalated as well.

You obviously do not know that. It might be better to consider whether the Gulf of Tonkin incident- a clear provocation by US military- would have occurred in the first place under a JFK administration. And even if it had, there is no guarantee JFK would have swallowed the Navy Intelligence false flag narrative.

That policy only changed when Nixon pulled out of Vietnam, and who obviously was not assassinated for doing so.

JFK never had the opportunity to make the change. He had come into office outbidding Nixon on anti-soviet rhetoric but then horrified his backers when, in light of events in Cuba, he reached out for rapprochement with Khrushchev. That was seen as betrayal and not just by anti-Castro Cubans.
JFK was an impediment to the expanding US Empire and, since he was likely to be re-elected, had to be removed. Nixon pulled out of Vietnam same as Trump is pulling out of Ukraine and for similar reasons. The game is up, it's a losing fight, it's costing the US money and the US Empire can better direct its power elsewhere. Trump, like Nixon, is fairly safe since he is committed to the project of the US Empire.

[Fiver]

Dulles certainly did since he had been sacked as CIA chief after the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

Dullles gained nothing from JFK's assassination.

. AS a WC appointee, McCloy was initially sceptical about the Lone Gunman theory but after meeting Dulles saw the light.

McCloy gained nothing from JFK's assassination.

And feel free to present evidence that McCloy was initially skeptical about the Lone Gunman theory.

[Fiver]

I previously raised the issue of conspiracy regarding Oswald being impersonated in a telephone call in Mexico City, a very odd incident since Oswald was portrayed as an inadequate, lone nutter by the WC. So why would anyone bother to do that? J Edgar Hoover seemed stumped as well. I can't remember receiving a response.

I've seen plenty of claims that Oswald was impersonated. But we have plenty of evidence that Oswald did go to Mexico and a Conspiracy would have no motive and no need to impersonate him.

[Fiver]

A very insular view of Johnson's presidency. Many in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos would disagree.

JFK and LBJ both supported the containment strategy against the USSR. If JFK had still been alive when the Gulf of Tonkin Incident happened, he would have escalated as well. That policy only changed when Nixon pulled out of Vietnam, and who obviously was not assassinated for doing so.

[Lewis C]

A very insular view of Johnson's presidency. Many in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos would disagree.

JFK escalated US involvement in Vietnam, and LBJ continued to escalate it. If there are people in SE Asia (and the US for that matter) who don't know that, that doesn't change the fact that it's true.