JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[FISHY1118]

So how would a real trial jury have differed from a mock trial jury? And please don’t say something like..a mock trial jury wouldn’t have tried so hard or that they wouldn’t have been bothered. A jury is a jury. 12 citizens viewed the evidence and found Oswald unanimously guilty..as ghetto clearly was.

At this ''Mock Trial ''was all the evidence of that we have shown here over 3000 post offered up , ? Of course not, so lets compare apples with cucumbers shall we .

[FISHY1118]

I can prove by solid evidence that someone fired from the 6th floor (there was a gun there plus cartridges) That they were there cannot be disputed.

What evidence do you have that there was a man firing from behind that fence? And I’m talking of tangible evidence and nothing about disputed angles or bullets (magic or otherwise)

We know that the answer is that you have no evidence. The police checked the location and found not the slightest evidence that anyone had stood there. Therefore there hadn’t been a gunman there unless he could levitate.

Yes you can, but you cant prove beyond a reasonable doubt or any certainty that the head shot came from the TSBD due to Connallys and James Tague , his wife and two Police officers evidence as has been shown . Btw was this evidence given at your mock trial ?

[FISHY1118]

You quoting this multiple times doesn't change anything.

Your source provides no evidence to support its claim that the JFK headshot was caused by a soft-nosed bullet. It also makes no sense. A competent Conspiracy wouldn't use metal-jacketed bullets if they had soft-nosed bullets available and they definitely wouldn't use both if they were trying to frame a lone gunman.

Yer it does , Because you cant show proof that the bullet that hit kennedys head existed , Where is the head shot bullet ? Connally , Tague , Mrs Connally , two police officers Provide evidence of a 4th shot .


Your ''why would and why wouldnt'' sentence has been correctly answered by another poster , so no need to even respond to that nonsense.

[A P Tomlinson]

Both photos show the same attachments for the rifle sling, though the poor cropping of the left photo makes it harder to tell.

The white strap is tied to a fitting on the underside of the woodstock while the TSBD gun has a bolted leather strap on the left side of the stock.

Despite the Warren Commission desperately trying to identify these two weapons as being the same, and flat out stating that they were, “...a photograph taken in the yard of Oswald’s apartment showed him holding this rifle.” (referring to the MC found in the TSBD) their own FBI expert Lyndal Shaneyfelt (called upon to make that very comparison) refused to say that was the case - stating that he could not reach that conclusion. He wouldn't say categorically that they were different either, but...burden of proof, and so on...

Like so many points that people consider "truth" The Warren Commission printed their conclusion ignoring the evidence given to them by experts. There was no defence counsel, so everyone they called in to do such testing and examination were hired by THEM. When their own experts are saying "That conclusion can not be reached by the evidence" why would they simply decide to ignore that expert guidance?

IF the rifles COULD have been identified as being the same, it would have been very bad for Oswald and his defenders and would have cemented him as the assassin in the eyes of the public. And it would have been detrimental to the "case" against Oswald if they were not able to tie him to that particular weapon.
But they couldn't be identified as the same rifle, so I wonder why the WC said it was?

For Christ's sake they even said the holstered handgun was the one used to shoot Tippit...

[FISHY1118]

So you're claiming that Connally was shot by multiple bullets? That makes no sense.

* Unless God was shooting at Connally, the thigh wound must have come from a bullet deflecting off of Connally's wrist.
* Unless Connally shot himself in the wrist with an invisible gun, the wrist wound came from the bullet that passed through Cannally's torso.



Firing bullest directly into the wrist of cadavers was not an accurate test. 1992 tests by Failure Analysis with lower velocity, as would be expected from a bullet that had passed through Connally's chest, did not result in bullet fragmentation from striking cadaver wrists, and the test bullets were generally less deformed than CE 399.



This is provably false. Testing showed unfired 6.5mm Carcano bullets weighed 161.2 grains. The stretcher bullet weighed 158.6 grains, a difference of 2.6 grains. Analysis of the combined weight of all fragments in Connally's wounds come to only 1.5 grains. Also, neutron activation testing proves that the bullet fragments from Connally's wounds came from CE 399.

So you're claiming that Connally was shot by multiple bullets? That makes no sense.





Thats not what im claiming. Connally was struck by a different bullet from the one that went through jfks head and neck .

[FISHY1118]

A full metal jacket bullet is meant to stop an opponent at long range and the soft nosed to do more tissue damage at shorter ranges. The tissue damage to JFKs head was massive according to the Parkland Doctors. The Zapruder film shows a head moving forward at the same time it explodes back and to the left. Laws of physics show possibly 2 shots hitting the head in microseconds. This is possible in the laws of physics.

One question is if JFK were hit from a full metal jacketed bullet in the head, where did it go? It would not have exploded or deformed if we are to believe the single bullet theory on that type bullet performance, from the same gun. Did it hit the windshield? Agent Kellerman sitting in front of Connally who was by then on his back and down, said he thought it was more like a shooting gallery. He was not hit but in the line of fire?

On the other hand, a shot from the grassy knoll with a soft nose bullet from a gun like the Remington X100 or similar gun would explain the tissue damage and fragmentation illustrated by physics. A full metal jacket would have exited.

Unfortunately Oswald was assassinated and the Limo was sent to Detroit and scrubbed. How convenient and unbelievable that evidence would be so treated in the Murder of a President.

Oswald is innocent until proven guilty. Since he was assassinated that is impossible so in terms of fact..Oswald was never proven to be the killer. There would have been a defense.

The bullet type and wounds are one issue. The timing is another between film and gun performance and trajectory angles and the number of bullets is the third. All 3 of these issues are not conclusively proven.

Would the government lie to its citizens and withold documents? This happened in 1963.. it's 2025.

The bullets are the W.C downfall.

[FISHY1118]

If a Conspiracy was going to plant a bullet, why would they switch it for a different bullet?

Who is running this Conspiracy; Moe, Larry, and Curly?

No you are . Hey its your Warren Commission Conpiracy dont forget.

[FISHY1118]

The HSCA proved it in 1976. Neutron activation tests showed CE 843 (from JFK's brain) and CE 567 (found on the front floorboard) were parts of the same bullet. CE 567 is the nose portion of a damaged 6.5-millimeter caliber full metal-jacketed, lead core bullet.

13 Years after the Assassination!!!!!!! yer right . nice try.

[FISHY1118]

If we found absolutely conclusive proof of the rippers identity. Evidence that every Ripperologist conceded made it ‘game over’ would be feel obliged to keep repeating that the ripper was ‘innocent until proven guilty’ because he hadn’t made it to court? Oswald was proven guilty by an overwhelming weight of evidence. To believe that he was innocent you would have to be willing to stand up and say “I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald took a package of curtain rods to work which subsequently vanished into thin air.”

Oswald Carried the Rifle to Work


Only three witnesses had seen Oswald prior to and during his arrival at work on 22 November 1963. All three testified that he had not carried a rifle. Buell Wesley Frazier, who had driven Oswald to work, and his sister, Linnie Mae Randle, at whose house Oswald had met Frazier that morning, both claimed that Oswald had been carrying a paper bag, but that the bag was much too short to have held the Mannlicher Carcano rifle that was discovered on the sixth floor of the TSBD. Jack Dougherty, a colleague of Oswald’s who saw him enter the TSBD, was adamant that he did not see anything in Oswald’s hands.6

Dallas police officers claimed to have discovered on the sixth floor a paper bag that was long enough to have contained the rifle, but the bag turned out to have had no association with either Oswald or the rifle:

• Frazier and Randle were shown this bag. Both claimed that it was several inches longer than the one they had seen.
• The bag did not show creases or oil stains consistent with it having held the disassembled rifle.7
• The bag that was produced in evidence was almost certainly not found at the scene of the crime: the police officers who first came across the alleged sniper’s nest gave confused testimony about whether there was a paper bag nearby,8 and none of the crime scene photographs showed the bag in situ.9
• Oswald could not have assembled the bag: although it had been constructed from wrapping paper and tape used at the depository, the bag could only have been assembled at the building’s wrapping table, to which Oswald did not have access.10

Was this submitted this to the mock trial ?

[FISHY1118]

This topic and thread is quickly turning to $#$% i dont see the point of continuing any further at this time ,i of course will be looking forward to any and all the remaining files being released in the very near future . Where no doubt many will have egg on their faces when the truth of the JFK assassination is finally revealed.

[A P Tomlinson]

There is no comparison Fishy. John Richardson said that he hadn’t seen a terribly mutilated corpse that would have been no more than a foot from his left boot. He couldn’t possibly have missed it and he hadn’t missed it. This is corroborated by Cadosch because he heard someone in that yard 40 minutes or so later and no one could have been in that yard and been unaware of the presence of a corpse.

What you are asking is that Connally, under tremendously stressful conditions, where he himself had been shot, was hyper-aware of the exact moment that Kennedy was struck; a man who was sitting behind him. We all know how we have to be cautious when assessing witness testimony and one thing that we have to be even more cautious about are the circumstances involved. If a man stands in a doorway watching two men fighting 20 feet away in broad daylight for a full minute then we would have a very reasonable level of confidence in his testimony (but even then we would need caution) What you are suggesting is total confidence in the judgment of a man who had just been shot in broad daylight and who, in retrospect, was trying to judge the exact point at which another man was shot; a man that he couldn’t see because he was behind him.

He didn't need to be hyper aware of exactly when Kennedy had been shot. He said he heard a shot, turned round and then got shot himself. That's exactly what the footage shows. I could understand if he were saying something that didn't tally with video evidence, but it tallies. In fact its pretty much the only thing that makes sense when you look at the wounds the two men received.

If you look at the Zapruder film, frame by frame, Connally is facing straight forward as Kennedy emerges from behind the Stemmons Freeway road sign.
It isn't till he later (like... a second or so later) that turns toward the right side of the car and he then shows signs of being shot when he has turned as far to the right as he does at any point in the film.
This point in the Z Film, is the frame that people who like to say "See! They were hit at the same time" use because it shows both men reacting to being shot at the same time. It's meant to suggest that THAT moment was when CE399 went through both of them. But Kennedy has been holding his throat in reaction to being shot for about 1.8 seconds at that point.

So... maybe Connally was shot and had a "delayed reaction?" Well not if you want to use the straight line trajectory model for CE399. (You've probably seen the old black and white photos of Arlen Specter doing the whole recreation thing with the pointers between people sitting in the car...)

If that bullet did what they said it did, it could ONLY have done it when Connally was turned to the right to be able to follow the trajectory that goes through at the right armpit, emerges from a more central chest location transcends his wrist and winds up in his leg. But he wasn't turned at all when he went behind or emerged from behind the Freeway sign. He still had his hat in his hand. (The one which had supposedly just had the wrist shattered.) He doesn't reach that point until roughly 2 seconds after JFK emerges into view, already having been shot and reacting to it.
So we are left with either a zig-zagging bullet a la Kevin Costner, or a bullet that hung around in midair for about 2 seconds before setting off again.

Just watch the Z Film, slow it down if you can because the important part is a matter of about two seconds, you'll see that the alleged route of the Magic Bullet, couldn't have happened with Connally sitting where he was at the time the bullet struck Kennedy, look at the stills if it helps, and delayed reactions involving transfer of energy like the one Connally has, only happen in Hollywood movies not those made by 1960s tailors.
Connally's bullet wound happens around one second before the head shot, which ties up with the majority of witnesses who heard the last two shots almost on top of each other.

The main reason the Connally being shot at the point it looks like (and the point he said, and the ONLY point that he is physically in position for the suggested trajectory) he was shot at, is a major problem for those who believe 'one man - three bullets', is that the head shot is immediately after it allowing no time to recycle, reacquire, and pull the rigger. And of course it would need an extra bullet.

[A P Tomlinson]

And this is selectively quoting the evidence, ignoring most statements by the doctors who performed the autopsy.

There's no genuine reason to rely on them for anything in particular.

You understand that neither Hulmes nor Boswell had ever conducted a gunshot autopsy in their careers and were instructed in certain areas of their examination by senior officers from the Pentagon? I know that sounds like whacky conspiracy nonsense, but its on record.
Neither of them had a clue what they were doing, so they called in Pierre Finck (a forensic pathologist who hadn't performed an autopsy in over a year)
After the autopsy Hulmes "voluntarily" burned his notes and had to rewrite them from scratch by memory and Finck complained that his notes were taken from him after the autopsy and he had to do the same.

They never traced the track of the wound to the back, after being ordered not to. Or at least never recorded it if they did. this is essential information in a shooting... "Where did the bullet GO after it hit the body?" tells you the line it followed to get there...
Not important when it's the President of the USA who gets shot.
This caused them greater confusion when they opened the chest cavity and couldn't find a bullet. No exit wound... and they hadn't traced the line... it should have been in there somewhere.
They then got lucky and word reached them about a bullet found on a stretcher in Parkland hospital. They figured that the bullet must have fallen out of Kennedy's back when given CPR... as if chest compressions would push a bullet back down its trajectory. Of course their scientifically reached conclusion changed the following day when someone pointed out that there had been a bullet wound to the throat.
That's when the Magic Bullet reinvented itself for the first time. The science NOW told them that the bullet had passed through from the rear and exited through the throat, at such a velocity to have appeared EXACTLY like a wound of entry... (That damned Parkland doctor and his military experience...) and had, after leaving the neck at such speed simply stopped and fallen down into Kennedy's shirt where it later fell out on a gurney.
It wasn't until a lot later that a lawyer (not doctors or ballistics experts...) decided that the science NOW suggested that the Magic Bullet had travelled all the way through kennedy and Connally creating seven wounds to two men and ending up looking like a comparison bullet that had been fired into a ballistic water tank, rather than the missile that broke THROUGH three human bones.

Hulmes and Boswell removed the brain before Finck arrived. Essentially making his skills as a forensic pathologist pointless because he now couldn't trace any bullet wounds through matter.
When the three men asked for more professional help... you know... it's only the President lying there... they were told no.
They missed that the throat wound was a bullet wound, despite that being a matter of public record since the Parkland Press conferences, where it (and the head wound) wound had been described as coming from the front by the (impartial) attending surgeons. (Perry, Clark and McLelland were all ex military, and so was Baxter though he worked mainly on Connally.)

The X Rays show smaller fragments of bullet toward the front and larger, more dispersed fragments spreading out the further back they went. This does not indicate a bullet from the back.

When shown the photos from the autopsy by the ARRB many years later, the photographer of record immediately identified them as not being his work. The images were full (not cropped), and included the outer frame of the development and he instantly recognised the shape of film notches. Off the top of my head I can't remember the specific brand but he said, "Nope, I never used yy brand, I always used, XX"
At around the same time, the Naval scientist who developed the photos after the autopsy was shown the ones that had made it to the official record and broke down in tears. They looked nothing like the photos she had developed, which had stuck with her since that day.

A neurosurgeon who examined the photos of the President's brain that were allegedly taken on the Monday having been removed by Hulmes and Boswell on the Friday night/Saturday morning, and identified it as being "Well fixed". Brains are very sloppy and very hard to dissect, and are effectively pickled in formalin until they harden before being sliced for examination. It takes about two days for a brain to become "preserved" but weeks for it to become firm enough to take sections. Over this period the brain changes colour from pink to grey. The neurosurgeon described the brain in the photo (allegedly Kennedy's brain) as one that had been fixed in formalin for weeks. This was a photo taken less than three days after the assassination.

The only man who was present at both the Hospital and the Autopsy, was Kennedy's personal physician, and his death certificate put the wound on his back... on his back... the autopsy report was very vague in where it considered it to be, and the "official" position was ultimately settled by Gerald Ford in 1964 when he changed the galley drafts of the Warren report, so that instead of saying "...wound to the back..." he crossed it out and wrote "...back of the neck..."
When called out on this Ford said it was ""for clarity".

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes really Herlock, Because the Warren Commision Conspiracy were only interested in 3 shots Lone gunman from the TSBD with one type of bullet, but as we know there was a 4th shot Where is Kennedys head shot bullet ?

The Warren Commission was only a ‘conspiracy’ in your opinion. I prefer looking at the actual evidence which clearly shows 3 shots all coming from behind (as even Connally himself said)

No plot to kill Kennedy would involve two gunmen at two different locations, leaving the possibility of two bullet paths through a body, when they were trying to convince everyone of only one gunman. Why do you assume that these plotters were idiots just to ‘fit’ a conspiracy?

[Herlock Sholmes]

At this ''Mock Trial ''was all the evidence of that we have shown here over 3000 post offered up , ? Of course not, so let’s compare apples with cucumbers shall we .

So they were looking at different evidence? All the evidence available now was available then. Open and shut case.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes you can, but you cant prove beyond a reasonable doubt or any certainty that the head shot came from the TSBD due to Connallys and James Tague , his wife and two Police officers evidence as has been shown . Btw was this evidence given at your mock trial ?

Connally had been shot and can’t possibly be relied on to be accurate about the exact point that Kennedy had been hit. He was simply deceived by the situation. Tague was hit by a fragment. His evidence means nothing.

The EVIDENCE, is 3 cartridges and no more. A bullet trajectory that aligns to the millimetre with a bullet that hit both Kennedy and Connally. It’s the majority of witnesses who said that there were 3 shots. It’s the majority who said that the shots came from behind.

Question - why do you believe that Connally was infallible about the 2 separate shots, but you think him fallible about the number and location of the shots?