JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Herlock Sholmes]

We see a fair bit of not unexpected ‘wriggling on the hook’ going on here. Is there a single poster on either side that had a seconds doubt that Fishy was talking about the files that were about to be released by Trump (and now have been)? Of course he was. These were the ones, according to him that were going to prove conspiracy. And now that we know that they don’t the goalposts, again not unexpectedly, are being moved. And wasn’t this always going to be the case? There’s always going to be that ‘one file’ that’s still hidden in a cupboard somewhere proving conspiracy. It reminds me of those fundamentalists who repeatedly ‘predict’ the end of the world and then come up with a tissue of the most feeble of excuses as to why it didn’t happen.

Opinions aside I’m sure that most people believe that we should avoid obvious falsehoods used just to make a point. But here’s an obvious one posted without shame:

“You haven't ever , not once ,been able to explain why all the Dr's at parkland who saw and claimed on the day of the assassination mind you , the massive hole in jfks head that prove the fake autopsy photo to be exactly .... that FAKE.”

This is categorically, provably a falsehood. Not all of the Doctors said that they had seen a hole in the back of Kennedy’s head. I don’t have any figures to hand at the moment (perhaps Fiver can step in? It would be interesting to know exactly what majority mistakenly saw a rear head wound) but from memory I’d estimate something like 5 or 6 that didn’t. It was a minority of course, no one could deny that (but why should they be dismissed?) And do conspiracy theorists only selectively go with the majority? Because they don’t go with the 17 pathologists majority (including conspiracy theorist Cyril Wecht) who all unanimously said that the shots came from behind. And they don’t go with the majority of witnesses who all identified Oswald as the killer of Officer Tippit. And they don’t go with the majority of witnesses who felt that the shots came from the area of the TSBD. And they don’t go for the majority who said that they heard three shots. And what about when they support O’Connor just one from 32 to claim that Kennedy’s brain was missing.

So with this kind of ‘pick and choose’ attitude to the significance toward questions of majority and minority it’s a wonder that they so strongly support the Parkland Doctors despite the clear issues - mostly inexperienced/ the most traumatic experience of their lives(for which they had no time to prepare themselves/ totally focused on resuscitation and not a head wound/ located at different positions around the tables/ the back of Kennedy’s head not being visible/ blood and gore pooling around the base of the head becoming matted with hair might easily have been mistaken for a wound/ one of the main Doctors (Charles Carrico) said that it was ‘absolutely’ possible that they could have been mistaken.

When we look at this sensibly and without a fixation which passes the border of obsession we can see what is obvious. 17 pathologists/ photographs/ x-rays/ the Zapruder film against the above and it’s no contest. Technology trumps fallible witnesses every time. Imagine the police favouring a few witnesses over CCTV footage which proved the suspect 200 miles away. It wouldn’t happen. They would be drummed out of court. Just like today if Oswald was on trial. The jury would take all of 5 minutes to decide him guilty. But this is the level of sheer desperation the CT’s are reduced to. The photos, x-rays and Zapruder film have been checked numerous times thoroughly and no evidence of fakery had been found (and please don’t post that totally discredited documentary about the Zapruder film).

We knew that there would be no evidence of conspiracy in those files because Oswald was clearly a Lone Gunman and the Warren Commission was a thoroughly honest endeavour (although with shortcomings) When people say things like “why do 70% of the population go for a conspiracy and why don’t they trust the WC,” the answer is simple. It’s all that public hears. Conspiracy sells. Lone gunman are boring. The public have been saturated with this stuff. So much so that they assume that it’s true. It’s propaganda. People make a living from the conspiracy industry. It’s Vested Interest City. Conspiracy is the easiest sell these days. Big bad government…I know something you don’t know….poor victimised ‘little man’….convoluted plots and people are lining up to present their ‘scripts’ hence the absolutely barking mad ‘suspects’ like Rosco White and Mac Wallace (both 100% not involved in any way) and ‘witnesses’ who were never there like Beverley the B******tter Oliver.

I suspect that the tide will turn one day. Eventually people will see through the madness and the USA will finally be able to rid themselves of this totally unnecessary 60 year long guilt trip which has been imposed on them quite deliberately by a section of society who resort to this kind of thing to further their own political agendas.

[Fiver]

Technology changes over time. As an Engineer you always look for a better mousetrap to solve problems. If I had a tool that could decisively make measurements in millimeters or less of an entire physical space like Dealy Plaza then why would you not use it? That's what digitizing with lasers actually does. So it would be able to take the point of a gun and connect it to the wounds on JFK and Connally in their exact space in relation to that point. All within a pixel.

Will be interesting to see the final analysis.

It was already done over a decade ago.

[Fiver]

So all the witnesses who saw the person that wasn't Oswald shoot tippet, they lied , were mistaken , were idiots , didn't exist?

Maybe we should put your dozen in that category .?

The Holan, Wright, and Clemons accounts disagree about:
* How many people they saw.
* What those people looked like.
* How those people were dressed.
* What those people said.
* What those people did.
* How those people left the scene.
* What direction those people left the scene.

But other than that, their stories matched.


That's before we consider that the "Doris Holan" account first appeared in a Conspiracist book four years after her death and didn't even get her address right.

There's also the problem (For the Conspiracists) that Holan ID'd Oswald as the shooter.

"So, she ran from the back to the living room and threw the curtain back and looked out the window and she could see this officer – Dallas police officer laying in the street; saw his squad car. And she said, on the sidewalk was a man. She said he had a gun in his hand. He had on a white jacket, black pants – ah – kind of a receding, balding hairline. And as she threw the curtain back, I guess the motion of the curtain – ‘cause he was facing her – he looked up and saw her in the window. And she looked at him. I asked her – I said, ‘Miss Holan,’ I said, ‘when you looked him in the face,’ I said, ‘and he looked at you?’ And she said, ‘Yes.’ She said – I said, ‘Do you think from the distance, where you were looking down and he was looking up, could you have identified him?’ She said, ‘Well, I’ve always said it like this,’ she said, ‘The man that I saw later that evening on TV and in the interviews and when Ruby shot him,’ she said, ‘if it wasn’t him, it was his twin brother.’ She said, ‘But on the day of, if they would have asked me, could I identify him? I would have had to say, no, she said, because I don’t think I could have made a positive identification.’ She said, ‘But, it most definitely, to a ninety-percent probability was that man that I saw on TV later.’"

[FISHY1118]

CTs have different opinions on what happened, so my thoughts are simply my own.



They didn't. The shooting of JD Tippit was not even disguised as a felon fleeing justice: it was a cold-blooded execution intending to silence a man for good. Whether Tippit was up so something at the time- his actions suggest he was- or whether his experienced eye just spotted someone he didn't think looked right I am not sure. But I cannot see his murder was planned beforehand.



They had little option after the event. The FBI were part of the cover up, not the plan.



They didn't. They reacted poorly at the time shots were fired but were not part of a conspiracy. Greer and Kellerman would hardly have been so stupid as to slow down a car deliberately when they were in the snipers' line of fire themselves.



I'm sure that was considered, as was an attempt at the Trade Mart itself where the bulk of the security detail had been allocated. The TSBD had the advantage of surprise, concealment and offered a better chance of escape, as events proved. There was no return fire from the security detail and the gunman/gunmen were able to escape the building.

Oh dear ...were back to the "why would they why didn't they " nonsense .

3 facts ,Is all thats required to show the warren commission lies .

The fake Autopsy photo, c399 Magic Bullet, the Mauser Rifle. Game over.

Undeniable, as yet unexplainable( by the w.c apologist) factual evidence..

[Patrick Differ]

Technology changes over time. As an Engineer you always look for a better mousetrap to solve problems. If I had a tool that could decisively make measurements in millimeters or less of an entire physical space like Dealy Plaza then why would you not use it? That's what digitizing with lasers actually does. So it would be able to take the point of a gun and connect it to the wounds on JFK and Connally in their exact space in relation to that point. All within a pixel.

Will be interesting to see the final analysis.

On a lighter note. John Gotti's hitman Sammy the Bull has weighed in as an expert. His expertise is of course from actually shooting people in the head. He said it's simple. He agrees with the head shot coming from the grassy knoll. You point, shoot and the head goes in the opposite direction. End of story. Take it from Sammy. He goes on to say there were no mob trigger men there that day.

[FISHY1118]

Oswald cannot be a patsy. There's roughly a dozen witnesses who saw him shoot JD Tippit or flee the scene.

A competent Conspiracy had multiple chances to kill Oswald before he spoke to the press. Why would Oswald claiming to be a patsy change their minds?

So all the witnesses who saw the person that wasn't Oswald shoot tippet, they lied , were mistaken , were idiots , didn't exist?

Maybe we should put your dozen in that category .?

[FISHY1118]

“Give up , the jigs up . and soon youll look silly when them files are released"


“The truth is coming .!"


“Let me make it clearer ,What is coming is , the evidence that will show there was indeed a conspiracy within the u.s. government to assassinate there own president with multiple shooters. Period. Full stop"


“The truth will out soon enough."

….


Has everyone on here noticed something?


Certain people have stopped mentioning the recently released files.


I wonder why?


After all…they were going to prove a conspiracy…..weren’t they?


I’ll tell you why..


Because as everyone who knows that President Kennedy was obviously killed by Lee Harvey Oswald knows….the truth is already out. It was out on the day of the murder. The files have produced zilch but no doubt conspiracy theorists are, as we speak, trying to manipulate what has been found into some kind of fantasy. Another Mac Wallace/Roscoe White classic. Perhaps Oswald never existed. Kennedy was a robot. Who knows?



Time for them to wave the white flag, apologise and go home.

Dream on . Alllllllll the files .

You haven't ever , not once ,been able to explain why all the Dr's at parkland who saw and claimed on the day of the assassination mind you , the massive hole in jfks head that prove the fake autopsy photo to be exactly .... that FAKE.

The warren commission white flag was waved a long time ago, you just can't accept it .

More fake Warren commission conspiracy to come. About 934 pages.

[FISHY1118]

Unfortunately, she did nothing of the kind. She told that her husband's wounds were caused by one bullet and he couldn't be hit in both his upper body and wrist if he held his right hand at about shoulder level, which the Zapruder film shows he did until at least frame 279 and then again from frames 320 to 330.

Of course she did , so did Governor Connolly

Not to mention the the Dr's at parkland hospital who exposed the fake autopsy photos of the back of jfks head.

C399 , the Mauser rifle , the slug from Tifrom body , the Wallace recording, im afraid its to easy to expose the warren commission lie .

There's so much more. I'll be posting it all.

[cobalt]

Some questions for the Conspiracists.

CTs have different opinions on what happened, so my thoughts are simply my own.

Why would the Dallas Police agree to a plan that involved the unnecessary murder of one of their own men?

They didn't. The shooting of JD Tippit was not even disguised as a felon fleeing justice: it was a cold-blooded execution intending to silence a man for good. Whether Tippit was up so something at the time- his actions suggest he was- or whether his experienced eye just spotted someone he didn't think looked right I am not sure. But I cannot see his murder was planned beforehand.

Why would the FBI agree to a plan that showed them as failures in assessing Oswald's danger and in repeatedly losing track of him for weeks?

They had little option after the event. The FBI were part of the cover up, not the plan.

Why would the Secret Service agree to a plan that required them failing at their job?

They didn't. They reacted poorly at the time shots were fired but were not part of a conspiracy. Greer and Kellerman would hardly have been so stupid as to slow down a car deliberately when they were in the snipers' line of fire themselves.

Why would the Conspiracy target JFK while he was in a moving vehicle when that morning at Ft Worth they had a much easier shot as JFK stood stationary in the open for several minutes on a raised platform?

I'm sure that was considered, as was an attempt at the Trade Mart itself where the bulk of the security detail had been allocated. The TSBD had the advantage of surprise, concealment and offered a better chance of escape, as events proved. There was no return fire from the security detail and the gunman/gunmen were able to escape the building.

[Fiver]

For what it's worth there is a high technology company that used lasers to digitize the entire Dealy Plaza. They are calling for expert marksman to come in and work with them to once and for all prove whether the shots could have all come from the 6th floor. Through just animation they concluded that they could not. However they need input on ballistics.

If I can find this video it explains the process but basically a laser scan creates digital points within a boundary. They physically went to Dealy Plaza and scanned it so the points could be exercised in 2D and 3D.

Testing as repeatedly shown that all the shots could have come from the TSBD in the available time. The Umbrella man and the Three Tramps were identified decades ago. The Grassy Knoll and Storm Drain shots are impossible. The "Badge Man" at the stone wall was really a pop bottle. Film footage sows that Secret Service Agent George Hickey and driver William Greer could not have fired the fatal shot.

The only possible alternative shooting place that doesn't completely contradict the evidence is from the Daltex building.

[Fiver]

Oswald never had a chance to Defend himself so that has to be factored in to any JFK discussion. He said he was a Patsy and that would have been part of the defense. Does it have a meaning?

Oswald clearly killed Tippit, so he cannot be a patsy.

Humes and Specter have no credibility with the American People as over 70% believe there was a government conspiracy.

Reality is not an opinion poll.

It did not help that RFK and Martin Luther King were also assassinated, also supposedly by a " lone nut".

Most assassination attempts are by lone nuts.

Would Oswald get a fair trial in Dallas. Probably, many in the South did not like the Kennedys. Could the government let him go to trial? There were good reasons not to obviously.

You continue to speak of the government as if it was a monolith. I have yet to see any credible reason that any government organization would need or want keep Oswald from standing trial. If they did, they're a pack of idiots who missed several earlier easier opportunities to silence Oswald and who sent an incompetent amateur assassin who succeeded due to blind luck.

[Patrick Differ]

Oswald never had a chance to Defend himself so that has to be factored in to any JFK discussion. He said he was a Patsy and that would have been part of the defense. Does it have a meaning?
Parkland Trauma Doctors only had 20 minutes with Kennedy surrounded by People that only added to chaos. The same thing happened at Bethesda which was called out by The HSCA.
Humes and Specter have no credibility with the American People as over 70% believe there was a government conspiracy. It did not help that RFK and Martin Luther King were also assassinated, also supposedly by a " lone nut". Imagine if you lived through this and watched as 3 of your Leaders, and not just local, but International Leaders of great importance, were taken. Would you trust your government at this point? Especially knowing that by this time you had no faith in the Warren Commission or a Single Bullet or LBJ, Hoover, CIA, Military...as they escalated Vietnam and did everything Kennedy was against

it was alot of death and uncertainty and an Oswald Trial would likely have torn the USA apart. When MLK was murdered American Cities were set ablaze. I was on a bus going to High School in Baltimore when the MLK riots broke out. Wrong place at wrong time. Today it would be much worse as you saw that with Rodney King. A good reason for changing Venue for OJ Simpson who was clearly guilty of murder.

Would Oswald get a fair trial in Dallas. Probably, many in the South did not like the Kennedys. Could the government let him go to trial? There were good reasons not to obviously.

Unless you actually lived through this period and experienced it you might have trouble understanding the passions of those who did, and do not believe in the Warren Report or the People who produced it.

For what it's worth there is a high technology company that used lasers to digitize the entire Dealy Plaza. They are calling for expert marksman to come in and work with them to once and for all prove whether the shots could have all come from the 6th floor. Through just animation they concluded that they could not. However they need input on ballistics.

If I can find this video it explains the process but basically a laser scan creates digital points within a boundary. They physically went to Dealy Plaza and scanned it so the points could be exercised in 2D and 3D.

[Fiver]

Some questions for the Conspiracists.

Why would the Dallas Police agree to a plan that involved the unnecessary murder of one of their own men?

Why would the FBI agree to a plan that showed them as failures in assessing Oswald's danger and in repeatedly losing track of him for weeks?

Why would the Secret Service agree to a plan that required them failing at their job?

Why would the Conspiracy target JFK while he was in a moving vehicle when that morning at Ft Worth they had a much easier shot as JFK stood stationary in the open for several minutes on a raised platform?

[Fiver]

If there was a need to silence Oswald and steer the outcome to him as a lone gunman, the Press briefings are a place one might look.

When Oswald said he was a Patsy, after the Press Briefing, was his fate sealed?

Did it happen this way? I dont honestly know. Just thoughts that came to me while reviewing data yesterday.

Oswald cannot be a patsy. There's roughly a dozen witnesses who saw him shoot JD Tippit or flee the scene.

A competent Conspiracy had multiple chances to kill Oswald before he spoke to the press. Why would Oswald claiming to be a patsy change their minds?

[Fiver]

At the Clay Shaw trial in 1969, Pierre Finck said, "The back wound's depth was the first fraction of an inch."

Lets look at what Dr Finck said in context.

Q: How far did the probe go into this wound?
A: I couldn't introduce this probe for any extended depth. I tried and I can give explanations why. At times you cannot probe a path, this is because of the contraction of muscles and different layers. It is not like a pipe, like a channel. It may be extremely difficult to probe a wound through muscle.
Q: Can you give me approximately how far in this probe went?
A: The first fraction of an inch.

Dr Finck also said:

Q: Is it not better pathological practice to dissect a skin wound area and submit this cross-section to microscopic examination to determine whether or not there was any burn or signed area as a result of a high speed bullet passing through this area as opposed to a naked eye observation?
A: The microscopic examination of a wound is a supplementary examination which I have done many times, but in this case the gross characteristics were sufficient to me to make a positive identification of a wound of entry in the back of the neck. I think I saw microscopic sections. I was in the office of Dr. Humes, but again I don't remember the time of the examination of these microscopic sections.

Q: State Exhibit 69, this one right here. Can you tell me whether that hit any bone in his neck?
A: From the X-rays it was determined that this bullet entering in the back of the neck, coming out in the front of the neck, did not strike major bones.

Q: You were puzzled by what you found in the back, is that right?
A: I was not puzzled by what I found in the back, I was puzzled by having a definite entry in the back, a bruise in the plural region, that is the region of the cavity of the chest, which was bruised, between the entry in the back and the exit in the front, and the three of us, the prosectors, we saw that bruise, and the following day knowing that a small wound had been seen in the front of the neck that made very much sense to me, an entry in the back, a wound in the front and a bruise in between due to the passage of that bullet.