saving Liz Stride

[Archaic]

I would imagine that cachous and a flower arrangement might run her something close to that 6d if by comparison her bed would have cost 4d.

This is an even sadder tale if Liz Stride really did buy herself the candy and the flower, because it means that her very human yearning for some of life's small pleasures inadvertently led to her death.

Best regards, Archaic

[Howard Brown]

This is an even sadder tale if Liz Stride really did buy herself the candy and the flower, because it means that her very human yearning for some of life's small pleasures inadvertently led to her death.


Ever curious, I am wondering how the purchase of anything led to her death and I'm sure others here are too.

Might her death not have everything to do with where she was that night ?

Puzzled in Pa.

[Archaic]

This is an even sadder tale if Liz Stride really did buy herself the candy and the flower, because it means that her very human yearning for some of life's small pleasures inadvertently led to her death.

Ever curious, I am wondering how the purchase of anything led to her death and I'm sure others here are too.

Might her death not have everything to do with where she was that night ?

Puzzled in Pa.

Yes, her death does have everything to do with where she was that night.

And if she hadn't spent her doss money on cachous and a flower, Liz could have been safely in bed that night and not lying dead in Dutfield's Yard.

Best regards, Archaic

[Howard Brown]

Fair point, no doubt.

However, her very human yearning for life's small pleasures as you suggest were quite possibly intended for engaging in man's oldest profession. That she snubbed a couple of would-be's leads me, at least, to think she was waiting for someone special.

I'd think those accoutrements weren't necessarily intended for quite so rosy a scenario...what with her being a prostitute.

Just a thought.

[Archaic]

You don't seem to have understood what I wrote the first time. It wasn't even intended as a "theory" of the case, it was a simple observation of human nature. I'm sure other people understood it that way.

The fact remains that Liz already had her doss money, and regardless of why she wanted to feel fresh and pretty that night, whether it was only for herself or to make her more attractive for someone else or a combination of the two, if she had not purchased the mints and the flower she could instead have reserved her lodgings.

> Even if she had still decided to go out without reserving her lodgings, and hoped to have a wonderful night with someone special or whatever scenario you want to dream up, [B]if she had just hung onto most of her money, at any point up to the time of her death she would still have had at least the option of going back to a safe place for the night.[/B]

If, for example, it turned out to be a somewhat discouraging night where things didn't seem to be going well,
or if a person she had intended to meet was late,
or if perhaps some man on the street was bothering her...

If Liz had only resisted the natural desire to feel "fresh and pretty" she would at least have retained her safe option.

But the second she spent her doss money on cachous and a flower she was left with nowhere to go, and NO option- no matter how badly the night seemed to be going- of calling it quits before she had earned back her doss money one way or another.

[Paul]

Can we even be 100% sure that Liz was one of Jacks victims?

[lynn cates]

probabilities

Hello Paul. Well, how about 50-50?

The best.
LC

[curious]

Ever curious, I am wondering how the purchase of anything led to her death and I'm sure others here are too.

Might her death not have everything to do with where she was that night ?

Puzzled in Pa.

hi, Howard,

The first thing that leapt off the screen at me when I first began reading about the victims was that all the first three had something new.

How? These women were so poor they could not keep a roof over their heads nor nourishment in their bodies. Yet, they all had something new -- Polly had her jolly bonnet. Annie had recently acquired rings. Liz had green velvet, a flower and cachous.

My very first inclination was that that fact is too important to be ignored, and I began to suspect a hawker.

Hawkers could be anyone with any background with enough money to purchase a few trinkets for resale.

just a thought. . .
curious

[lynn cates]

suspicion

Hello Curious. Are you suggesting that those new items were gifts from a hawker? Would such fairly expensive (for these ladies) gifts cause any suspicion on the part of the ladies?

The best.
LC

[curious]

Hello Curious. Are you suggesting that those new items were gifts from a hawker? Would such fairly expensive (for these ladies) gifts cause any suspicion on the part of the ladies?

The best.
LC

Hi, Lynn,
how are ya? What first interested me was that all three had something new.

I felt that was important.

But no, I don't see gifts. After all Liz had money and Polly had had her doss money three times the day she was killed -- and spent it.

What I could see was a hawker who was friendly with all the women -- and known to them. Someone they were comfortable with.

Perhaps, if they were admiring something in particular, he'd "help" them get it -- a little money down and a "loan" --- "you're good for it, love.", etc.

As you've probably figured out by now, I'm looking and wondering -- still undecided on everything. But the fact that the three first victims all had something new, when they were so desperately poor, makes me stop and take notice -- and wonder.

curious

[lynn cates]

Kate

Hello Curious. Certainly an interesting line of inquiry. I think Kate's husband, Kelly, had some new clothes as well. I think they may have been purchased elsewhere. Perhaps you would like to poke around there a bit?

The best.
LC

[Paul]

Are we calling it the night of the 'double event' because of the 'saucy Jacky' letter?

To me it could easily have been an unrelated murder, and Jack the Ripper could have only struck once that night?

Liz only had a slit throat, could have been anybody.

[lynn cates]

double event

Hello Paul.

"Are we calling it the night of the 'double event' because of the 'saucy Jacky' letter?"

Quite likely.

The pros and cons of Liz's candidacy are discussed throughout this thread. It might repay having a look as time permits.

The best.
LC

[perrymason]

Hi all,

Since some comments were made about my comments concerning Liz Strides earnings and the appearance of a flower arrangement on her jacket that she did not have before leaving the lodging house, as well as the cachous.....I did not suggest ever that those items or her money had anything to do with her murder.

I was suggesting that they may have everythingto do with what she was likely doing out at 12:45am stone cold sober standing in front of a yard adjacent to an anarchists Men's social club with nearly 30 people still inside, some singing.

As to your question curious regarding the piece of velvet....I think that is part of a temporary, at least, goodbye to the fellow lodger. Liz stated she wouldnt be returning that night....how might she know this for certain at 5pm,....Liz wanted to be tidy and neat when she left....shown by requesting to borrow the lint brush and her lodgemate's comments that Liz wore her "good" evening wear that night.....Liz has flowers that she did not have early in the evening pinned to her jacket, and sweets for her breath...and she does not have the 6d she earned when found, and there is no evidence at all that her pockets were rifled.

She is seen with several men, none of which we can be certain were with her for her "services", and she remains in the company of them for brief periods.

She is standing just outside a Mens Club at 12:45am, wearing her "good" evening wear, a flower on her jacket, with some mints in her pocket, and she has no alcohol detectable in her blood. She has stated that she would not be staying where she normally does.

If that doesnt seem just like a woman waiting to meet up with a new beau she planned on sleeping with, then I give up.

Best regards all

[c.d.]

Hi Michael

Somehow I just can't imagine you giving up.

c.d.