From Mitre Square to Goulston Street - Some thoughts.

[Aethelwulf]

Reposting Christian's image of Goulston Street from post#7. As you can see there are four identical entrances (not sure what is out of shot to the right). Each entrance looks like it leads to a central stairwell (the raised brickwork columns). It is a bit of a coincidence that the unrelated graffiti artist and JTR chose the exact same entrance. There must have been dozens and dozens of people going in and out of these buildings every day, and I think to suggest a message that could be taken as racist (and very easily rubbed out) just being left there is unrealistic. It would be like someone going to an area of a town/city/estate/street inhabited by a particular racial group and writing something that could be taken as racist and the locals saying 'nah, we see that all the time, just leave it'. Isn't going to happen IMO.

[Tom_Wescott]

That is not correct.

He used those words when he was claiming that the Whitechapel Murderer was a Polish Jew.

My own use of those words was meant humorously.

No, it is correct. Anderson espoused that the GSG was, in fact, written by the Ripper. Though of course he couldn't know that.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Well I think the killer had enormous luck on their side not to get caught. What wasn't luck isn't necessarily down to their survival instinct, more the will of their mission...to maintain the mystery.

I agree also that he was lucky - especially on the night of the double murder.

Of course, he must have wanted to maintain the mystery, but he must also have wanted to survive!

[Curious Cat]

I agree.

I would add that the murderer's survival instinct played a part in the timing of the cessation of the murders.

Well I think the killer had enormous luck on their side not to get caught. What wasn't luck isn't necessarily down to their survival instinct, more the will of their mission...to maintain the mystery.

[Abby Normal]

btw i beleive your in the DMV area? looks like finally this rain will let up and the sun will come later this afternoon. happy saturday!

Why thank you. I believe you are a hiker. Just got the Sunday Afternoon Ultra Adventure Hat. Damn, what a nice hat. Phenomenal reviews all over the internet. Yes, very dorky but super protection and super lightweight and comfortable. Got it from REI but looks like it is even cheaper on amazon. Check it out if you need a good sun hat.

c.d.

hi cd
yes i am. love hiking around the potomac, and bay, beach and mountains! thats what i love about this area, its got it all! thanks for the tip about the hat, ill have to check it out.

[c.d.]

btw i beleive your in the DMV area? looks like finally this rain will let up and the sun will come later this afternoon. happy saturday!

Why thank you. I believe you are a hiker. Just got the Sunday Afternoon Ultra Adventure Hat. Damn, what a nice hat. Phenomenal reviews all over the internet. Yes, very dorky but super protection and super lightweight and comfortable. Got it from REI but looks like it is even cheaper on amazon. Check it out if you need a good sun hat.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

then a short time later, while trying to finagle eddowes into mitre square, hes seen by three more jews(and yes he may not have known they were jewish, but perhaps he did, or inferred it) who were speaking disparagingly about him.

Hello Abby,

Isn't it reasonable to assume that the Ripper was seen by a number of people that night not just Jews? Where is the evidence that he heard them speaking disparagingly about him? Does that come from Lawende? I have never heard that before.

c.d.

Hi cd
yes he probably was but it was the jewish men who were pestering him. there is no evidence he heard lawende and company complaining about him, but the ripper was nothing if not alert and perceptive and it wouldnt be too surprising if he had heard them. at the very least they were hanging around watching him talk to eddowes so he was probably annoyed at that.

btw i beleive your in the DMV area? looks like finally this rain will let up and the sun will come later this afternoon. happy saturday!

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Not to feed into the argument of "knowing" the killer's motive, but my thought has long been that they intended their identity and motive to actually be an ongoing mystery. They didn't want to be identified but they also didn't want someone else either taking credit or being believed to be the person behind the killings. They wanted the whole case to remain unsolved and their part in it to be solely known and understood by them. The power of having that knowledge would be as intoxicating as the carrying out of the murders themselves. That's why they stopped. They reached their ideal position of creating the situation and then living out the legacy.

That is my speculative opinion anyway.

I agree.

I would add that the murderer's survival instinct played a part in the timing of the cessation of the murders.

[c.d.]

then a short time later, while trying to finagle eddowes into mitre square, hes seen by three more jews(and yes he may not have known they were jewish, but perhaps he did, or inferred it) who were speaking disparagingly about him.

Hello Abby,

Isn't it reasonable to assume that the Ripper was seen by a number of people that night not just Jews? Where is the evidence that he heard them speaking disparagingly about him? Does that come from Lawende? I have never heard that before.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

Neither Schwartz nor Lawende interrupted the ripper . If Schwartz is 100% accurate in what he saw it didn't stop the killer murdering Liz. And if we argue that he was interrupted in the mutilation the person most likely to have done this was Diemschultz who was Jewish, but since Dutfield's yard was pitch black more or less, the assailant would hardly notice this, if indeed he saw Diemschultz at all. As for Mitre sq the three Jewish gentlemen certainly [ again ] didn't stop the murder nor the mutilation . If anyone interrupted the ripper there it would be PC Watkin.

As for the apron being found near some graffiti mentioning the Jews, and it being a big coincidence if not connected. The area had its fair share of Jews and predominantly Jewish buildings. How do we know there wasn't other scrawlings on walls for or against the Jews further up the street say ?
I believe Walter Dew mentioned something like this .

Regards Darryl

hi DK, sunny and cd
Repectfully,but i couldnt disagree more. the ripper was interupted and seen while attacking stride by schwartz, who abberline described as having a strong jewish appearance, which pissed him off so much he yelled a disparaging jewish slur at him and probably led to him bolting before he could finish with mutilations. then a short time later, while trying to finagle eddowes into mitre square, hes seen by three more jews(and yes he may not have known they were jewish, but perhaps he did, or inferred it) who were speaking disparagingly about him.

imho thats why he cut her apron to sign the gsg to get back at them, obsfucate things, and throw some shade their way, perhaps hoping to fuel the jewish ripper theory which had recently been going around with the leather apron/pizer events. it also helps explain the sequence of events that night, with it it not being there when long went past the first time, because he went back to his bolt hole, clean up and grab some chalk before heading out to place it at a jewish residing building.

The police at the time thought it was from the ripper and it ties up all the evidence from the night of the double event. And it worked like a charm, probably better than the ripper expected.

There really shouldnt be any doubt the Gsg was written by the ripper, not to me anyway.

[Curious Cat]

Not to feed into the argument of "knowing" the killer's motive, but my thought has long been that they intended their identity and motive to actually be an ongoing mystery. They didn't want to be identified but they also didn't want someone else either taking credit or being believed to be the person behind the killings. They wanted the whole case to remain unsolved and their part in it to be solely known and understood by them. The power of having that knowledge would be as intoxicating as the carrying out of the murders themselves. That's why they stopped. They reached their ideal position of creating the situation and then living out the legacy.

That is my speculative opinion anyway.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

So you know the intent of the murderer? Damn, that is impressive. The rest of us just have to speculate.

c.d.

There is no need to speculate about whether the murderer was trying to exploit the local anti-Jewish prejudice excited by the murders.

It is quite obvious that he did,

[c.d.]

The murderer was not seeking credit.

His sole purpose was to blame the Jews for the murders.

That is why he cut the apron in two, carried it such a long distance, and left a message blaming the Jews practically pointing to the apron piece, which had bloodstains from the latest victim.

So you know the intent of the murderer? Damn, that is impressive. The rest of us just have to speculate.

c.d.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Hello Tom,

I agree with Trevor on this. If the Ripper had any concerns about getting credit why go about it in such a half ass way? Why not something along the lines of "tonight it was two" or something specific about the crimes?


c.d.

The murderer was not seeking credit.

His sole purpose was to blame the Jews for the murders.

That is why he cut the apron in two, carried it such a long distance, and left a message blaming the Jews practically pointing to the apron piece, which had bloodstains from the latest victim.

[c.d.]

If the GSG referred to anything I believe it could only have been the Berner Street Club, plastered as it was outside in Hebrew literature. The point of leaving Eddowe's apron beneath the writing was to connect the two crimes. He was concerned he wouldn't get credit for Stride due to the lack of mutilation. He needn't have worried, as it turns out.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hello Tom,

I agree with Trevor on this. If the Ripper had any concerns about getting credit why go about it in such a half ass way? Why not something along the lines of "tonight it was two" or something specific about the crimes?

By the way, welcome back. Hope you intend to put in some time here. You and Sam back as well. The gods have smiled on us.

c.d.