From Mitre Square to Goulston Street - Some thoughts.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Can actual evidence be provided that “violent homes were almost unheard of in the Jewish Community in Whitechapel?” Was a study done or is that just an opinion?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

He is a poor suspect based on what we know. However much evidence is missing and what we know about Aaron Kosminski in 1888 is negligible. I would state though that an apt comparison may be Robert Napper. He had a similar post murder mutilation fixation as the Ripper. In a mental hospital now he also seemingly had similar delusions as Kosminski. He has been said to believe an IRA letter bomb blew off his hand- however the hand grew back. He had delusions of being guided by higher powers and that he was an MI5 spy. Kosminski also had these type of delusions based on what we know. Something to think about maybe??????

As I am sure Trevor Marriott will confirm, Napper's background is typical of that of serial killers - he came from a dysfunctional and violent home, had a criminal record at age 20, and was suspected of having committed a rape at 23.

There is nothing similar in Kosminski's case.

It was well-known that violent homes were almost unheard of in the Jewish community in Whitechapel.

There is no evidence that Kosminski was in trouble for anything more serious than walking a dog without a muzzle.

There is no evidence even that he was ever of interest to the police prior to his incarceration.

The whole case against him is non-existent.

[Sunny Delight]

When you write 'Kosminski' I assume you're referring to Aaron? That's fair, then, since many writers accept Aaron as Anderson's suspect. But I'm not one of them. Aaron is a bad Ripper suspect, so I'd like to think that Anderson and Swanson had someone better in mind.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

He is a poor suspect based on what we know. However much evidence is missing and what we know about Aaron Kosminski in 1888 is negligible. I would state though that an apt comparison may be Robert Napper. He had a similar post murder mutilation fixation as the Ripper. In a mental hospital now he also seemingly had similar delusions as Kosminski. He has been said to believe an IRA letter bomb blew off his hand- however the hand grew back. He had delusions of being guided by higher powers and that he was an MI5 spy. Kosminski also had these type of delusions based on what we know. Something to think about maybe??????

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

We may wonder just how many Jewish businesses, Residences and Synagogues there were between Mitre Sq. & Goulston St.

He was obviously returning to base and relative safety.

He decided to leave the apron piece somewhere as far away from the scene of the murder and as close to home as possible.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Doesn't that shoot down your argument?
Without the apron, there's no connection to the murder, so you are saying if Jews in general heard of some graffiti accusing the Jews of something (nothing specific being stated), they risk a riot?

I wrote:

Some police officers wanted the graffito to remain in place until it could be photographed, with the apron piece presumably having been removed.

Yet Warren and Arnold were adamant that even in the absence of the bloodstained apron piece, to have left the writing in place would have risked a pogrom.

What are the chances, then, of the Jewish population allowing such a message to be left at the entrance to their homes during the autumn of terror?


I think my argument is perfectly coherent.

In that atmosphere, there was a danger of a pogrom.

It seemed close to happening soon after the previous night of murder three weeks before.

The police on the spot considered it too risky to let the graffito see daylight.

Why would Jewish people have taken a more tolerant view?

[Wickerman]

The murderer was not seeking credit.

His sole purpose was to blame the Jews for the murders.

That is why he cut the apron in two, carried it such a long distance, and left a message blaming the Jews practically pointing to the apron piece, which had bloodstains from the latest victim.

We may wonder just how many Jewish businesses, Residences and Synagogues there were between Mitre Sq. & Goulston St.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

When you write 'Kosminski' I assume you're referring to Aaron? That's fair, then, since many writers accept Aaron as Anderson's suspect. But I'm not one of them. Aaron is a bad Ripper suspect, so I'd like to think that Anderson and Swanson had someone better in mind.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Yes.

I did mean Aaron.

If Swanson had someone else in mind, then either he had a different first name, in which case there is no record of such a person at Colney Hatch, or Swanson got his name wrong - in which case, one wonders what else he may have got wrong.

[Tom_Wescott]

I brought it up myself the other day!

Here is what I wrote in # 205:

As I pointed out the other day, the writer of the GSG appears, on the meagre evidence we have, to have had a better grasp than Kosminski had, as the former made no mistakes - even the claim that he used an incorrect double negative being debatable - whereas Kosminski said I goes instead of I go.

So what are the chances of Kosminski's having been able to write the GSG with the only spelling mistake being in the one word he would surely have been able to spell?

When you write 'Kosminski' I assume you're referring to Aaron? That's fair, then, since many writers accept Aaron as Anderson's suspect. But I'm not one of them. Aaron is a bad Ripper suspect, so I'd like to think that Anderson and Swanson had someone better in mind.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Yes that too. I reckon JtR already had some petty grievance (real or imagined) against the Jewish community (maybe along the lines of 'why are they doing better than me' in a racist context). Schwartz and Lawende reminded him of his prejudice.

Jews were the proverbial money-lender, christians across the city were in dept to Jews and many could not tolerate that.
Jews were often occupying influential positions in society, the christian public believed they influenced laws to profit other Jews.
There was much the English public had to complain about regarding Jews.

[Wickerman]

...

Yet Warren and Arnold were adamant that even in the absence of the bloodstained apron piece, to have left the writing in place would have risked a pogrom.
...

Doesn't that shoot down your argument?
Without the apron, there's no connection to the murder, so you are saying if Jews in general heard of some graffiti accusing the Jews of something (nothing specific being stated), they risk a riot?

[Wickerman]

That's a poor analogy though. How much modern graffiti has a piece of clothing from a murder victim dumped near it? The GSG is message that can be interpreted as connected to the lipski incident earlier that night.

It's a poor analogy in your view because you make assumptions that have not been verified. Your mind is partially made up to start with.
Your view doesn't work if the two are not related, and there's no proof they ever were.

I don't buy your theory of people today not being bothered either. No one is going to be bothered about graffiti saying something like 'wick woz ere '23', but something that could be taken as racist is another matter and most likely someone would clean it.

Racial graffiti is everywhere, especially in downtown areas, on railway carriages, factory walls, public toilets. Residential buildings are not so much targeted today, one reason might be no-one knows who are resident, but they are often well lighted anyway, but lets not go down a rabbit-hole...
No-one knows if the Jewish residents were sufficiently literate to know what the graffiti said, and no-one knows when it first appeared.
The City police were the ones who went door-to-door throughout the tenement speaking to the residents, only they knew if the police had answers to those questions.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

What pro-Anderson theorists sometimes miss is this: the fact that Anderson WAS certain the Ripper wrote it, and was also certain (in his mind) that his Polish Jew suspect wrote it, means that whoever his suspect was, that person could read and write in the English language. I'm aware this point is off topic, but it's worth bringing up from time to time.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I brought it up myself the other day!

Here is what I wrote in # 205:

As I pointed out the other day, the writer of the GSG appears, on the meagre evidence we have, to have had a better grasp than Kosminski had, as the former made no mistakes - even the claim that he used an incorrect double negative being debatable - whereas Kosminski said I goes instead of I go.

So what are the chances of Kosminski's having been able to write the GSG with the only spelling mistake being in the one word he would surely have been able to spell?

[Tom_Wescott]

Tom

The bodies were left where they were killed he had no control over where they were left its not as if he could pick them up and carry them to another location.

There is no evidence to point to who wrote the graffiti or when it was written. It is wild speculation to suggest the killer wrote it.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I think the truth of the matter lies somewhere between Anderson's claim that it's an obvious fact the Ripper wrote it and your claim that it's wild speculation. Truth is, we will never know. But the weight of the evidence does lean in the direction of the Ripper having written it. What pro-Anderson theorists sometimes miss is this: the fact that Anderson WAS certain the Ripper wrote it, and was also certain (in his mind) that his Polish Jew suspect wrote it, means that whoever his suspect was, that person could read and write in the English language. I'm aware this point is off topic, but it's worth bringing up from time to time.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing

(WHITECHAPEL MURDERER)


The Jews are to blame for each German soldier who falls in this war.

The Jews are the enemy's agents among us.

The Jews are responsible for the war.

(JOSEPH GOEBBELS)

Jews have always been blamed for the crucifixion.
Victorian society was more centered on religion, we might say bordering on the fanatical compared with today.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor, good to see you still kicking around. To answer your question, I'd say it was the same with the bodies he left around. He expected someone would find them and report them. And they did. Where but on a wall would you expect someone to write graffiti?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom

The bodies were left where they were killed he had no control over where they were left its not as if he could pick them up and carry them to another location.

There is no evidence to point to who wrote the graffiti or when it was written. It is wild speculation to suggest the killer wrote it.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk