From Mitre Square to Goulston Street - Some thoughts.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

And if we argue that he was interrupted in the mutilation the person most likely to have done this was Diemschultz who was Jewish, but since Dutfield's yard was pitch black more or less, the assailant would hardly notice this, if indeed he saw Diemschultz at all.

I think it is generally accepted that it is likely that Diemschutz did interrupt the murderer.


As for Mitre sq the three Jewish gentlemen certainly [ again ] didn't stop the murder nor the mutilation . If anyone interrupted the ripper there it would be PC Watkin.

Surely Harvey is much more likely to have disturbed him.


As for the apron being found near some graffiti mentioning the Jews, and it being a big coincidence if not connected. The area had its fair share of Jews and predominantly Jewish buildings. How do we know there wasn't other scrawlings on walls for or against the Jews further up the street say ?
I believe Walter Dew mentioned something like this .


As I argued before, there is no reason to suppose that Jews tolerated anti-Jewish graffiti chalked at the entrances to their dwellings.

If they did do so during the autumn of terror, why would Warren and Arnold have thought that the removal of such graffiti needed to be done urgently in this case?

c.d. suggested previously that there were retaliatory pro-Jewish graffiti and I believe I comprehensively demolished the idea.

[c.d.]

Schwartz was only guilty of walking down the street. He did not attempt to interfere in what he saw. Now if it had been a group of Catholic church goers parading with an image of a saint I could see some sort of connection to being Catholic. But what did being Jewish have to do with simply walking down the street?

c.d.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Neither Schwartz nor Lawende interrupted the ripper . If Schwartz is 100% accurate in what he saw it didn't stop the killer murdering Liz. And if we argue that he was interrupted in the mutilation the person most likely to have done this was Diemschultz who was Jewish, but since Dutfield's yard was pitch black more or less, the assailant would hardly notice this, if indeed he saw Diemschultz at all. As for Mitre sq the three Jewish gentlemen certainly [ again ] didn't stop the murder nor the mutilation . If anyone interrupted the ripper there it would be PC Watkin.

As for the apron being found near some graffiti mentioning the Jews, and it being a big coincidence if not connected. The area had its fair share of Jews and predominantly Jewish buildings. How do we know there wasn't other scrawlings on walls for or against the Jews further up the street say ?
I believe Walter Dew mentioned something like this .

Regards Darryl

[Sunny Delight]

bingo wulf. added to that lawende and co later at Mitre square and the ripper was probably doubly pissed off.

That is hindsight. The killer could not have known that night that 3 men passing by as he spoke with Eddowes were Jews nor that they had anything significant to offer. So being pissed off at that seems a ridiculous notion.

[mpriestnall]

This may be a dumb question because the answer may be obvious, but I'm sure there may be more than one opinion on this and I'm interested
to the hear them all:

Why did Crawford spend so much time establishing the actual spelling of the second word (the "J" word") of the writing on the wall?

Martyn

[c.d.]

bingo wulf. added to that lawende and co later at Mitre square and the ripper was probably doubly pissed off.

Except that we have absolutely zero evidence that the Ripper was aware that Lawende was looking at him. And why would he be upset by that? I would expect any couple on the street at that time to get extra scrutiny. And he didn't let a glancing look interfere with his plans.

c.d.

[Aethelwulf]

bingo wulf. added to that lawende and co later at Mitre square and the ripper was probably doubly pissed off.

Yes that too. I reckon JtR already had some petty grievance (real or imagined) against the Jewish community (maybe along the lines of 'why are they doing better than me' in a racist context). Schwartz and Lawende reminded him of his prejudice.

[Abby Normal]

That's a poor analogy though. How much modern graffiti has a piece of clothing from a murder victim dumped near it? The GSG is message that can be interpreted as connected to the lipski incident earlier that night.

I don't buy your theory of people today not being bothered either. No one is going to be bothered about graffiti saying something like 'wick woz ere '23', but something that could be taken as racist is another matter and most likely someone would clean it.

plus today its spray painted and hard to remove, unlike the chalk GSG

[Abby Normal]

Yes agree. I've never been convinced by any of the arguments the ripper didn't write the GSG. If Long managed to notice it in the middle of the night, someone would have seen it and probably removed it if it'd been there already (e.g. written the day(s) before). The other alternative is that someone wrote it that night and the ripper just happened to pick that spot to drop the apron, and that just sounds too far fetched. Given Schwartz and the Lipski comment, I just can't see GSG and apron as unrelated.

bingo wulf. added to that lawende and co later at Mitre square and the ripper was probably doubly pissed off.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

To quote Manuel from Fawlty Towers, "que"?

Sorry, but this tells us nothing about the GSG and is a complete non sequitur unless you think Goebbels wrote the GSG.

c.d.

I didn't make any non-sequitur.

[c.d.]

The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing

(WHITECHAPEL MURDERER)


The Jews are to blame for each German soldier who falls in this war.

The Jews are the enemy's agents among us.

The Jews are responsible for the war.

(JOSEPH GOEBBELS)

To quote Manuel from Fawlty Towers, "que"?

Sorry, but this tells us nothing about the GSG and is a complete non sequitur unless you think Goebbels wrote the GSG.

c.d.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing

(WHITECHAPEL MURDERER)


The Jews are to blame for each German soldier who falls in this war.

The Jews are the enemy's agents among us.

The Jews are responsible for the war.

(JOSEPH GOEBBELS)

[c.d.]

Although you've been spouting torrents of nonsense elsewhere, I will agree with you here. For the sake of compromise though I would alter 'could not have been pro-Jewish' to 'unlikely to have been'.

Yes, exactly. The difference between stating a fact and stating an opinion.

c.d.

[Aethelwulf]

The GSG was obviously accusatory.

It could not have been pro-Jewish.

Although you've been spouting torrents of nonsense elsewhere, I will agree with you here. For the sake of compromise though I would alter 'could not have been pro-Jewish' to 'unlikely to have been'.

[c.d.]

The GSG was obviously accusatory.

It could not have been pro-Jewish.

Well that settles that! Thanks for your input.

c.d.