From Mitre Square to Goulston Street - Some thoughts.

[Losmandris]

Good to see the thread back up and running. It was a wonderful trip I had a couple of years ago. And it really is amazing just how close the two areas are. You can get from one to another in no time. You can almost pass through by accident if you are heading back to Whitechapel.

[Losmandris]

I agree with Lewis C here they probably wanted to remain anonymous and/or would have been scared if they came forward they would have either been accused of being the murderer or of trying to cause a riot or something.

[Scott Nelson]

Just going back to the chalk bit, why didn’t the real writer of the graffito ever come forward?

Because he was a scared schoolkid who didn't want to get involved.

[Abby Normal]

Just going back to the chalk bit, why didn’t the real writer of the graffito ever come forward?

because he was probably the ripper

[Lewis C]

Can't say for sure but probably because he would then have to explain why it was found next to a very incriminating piece of evidence, i.e., the apron.

c.d.

That could be. Also, what was written doesn't reflect well on the writer even if he wasn't the murderer. He may have preferred to be anonymous, much like people who post bigotry on the internet that they wouldn't express in real life, because the internet can provide anonymity.

[c.d.]

Just going back to the chalk bit, why didn’t the real writer of the graffito ever come forward?

Can't say for sure but probably because he would then have to explain why it was found next to a very incriminating piece of evidence, i.e., the apron.

c.d.

[The Cenci]

Just going back to the chalk bit, why didn’t the real writer of the graffito ever come forward?

[Losmandris]

I'm not sure the police beat logistics and so on would work for PC Harvey, but it's possible that someone came along and that meant dropping the apron was a good idea.

Personally, I'd got for: he was far enough away from the crime scene, there was nobody around, and he took the opportunity to pause and get himself together for the walk home.

Makes perfect sense. Could even have been taken as a trophy in itself only for him to change his mind about it on the way home.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Maybe that is why he got rid of the apron piece. He sees Harvey coming towards him so casually drops the incriminating evidence.

I'm not sure the police beat logistics and so on would work for PC Harvey, but it's possible that someone came along and that meant dropping the apron was a good idea.

Personally, I'd got for: he was far enough away from the crime scene, there was nobody around, and he took the opportunity to pause and get himself together for the walk home.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

In the event we are to believe other newspapers' reporting of the inquest, then it would suggest that Joseph was concerned for his welfare, which is unlikely to have been induced from a belief that prostitution was about to take place but rather that a mugging could be in the offing.

There is no reason to suppose that Levy was afraid that the woman with the bonnet might attack him.

He may, however, have been worried that the man - who was described by Lawende as rough-looking - might attack him, or that others like him might be about at such a late hour and they might attack him.

He did say that he was rarely out later than 11 p.m.

There really is no reason to think that the woman was doing anything other than soliciting.

[Fleetwood Mac]

The only evidence we have of business being conducted at around the time of the murder in that area is of a rough man who had the appearance of a sailor being charmed by a woman who had her hand on his chest in a passage off Duke Street that led to Mitre Square.

The only evidence you have there is a couple standing at the corner of a passage. That does happen for reasons that have nothing to do with the intent you're suggesting.

You're basing this on Joseph Levy thinking they were 'up to no good'. Firstly, that is Joseph's intuition, assuming Joseph wasn't proven to hold supernatural powers that enabled him to predict the future. Secondly, 'up to no good' could quite easily have meant something outside of the intent you're suggesting.

In fact, according to other reports from the inquest, Joseph said more:

I don't like going home by myself when I see these sort of characters about.

In the event we are to believe other newspapers' reporting of the inquest, then it would suggest that Joseph was concerned for his welfare, which is unlikely to have been induced from a belief that prostitution was about to take place but rather that a mugging could be in the offing.

[GBinOz]

I meant


I am as yet unpersuaded that Jack didn't cut himself, an unanticipated occurrence requiring an adhoc solution, and use the apron piece to stem the flow until it had stopped...

instead of

I am as yet unpersuaded that Jack didn't cut himself, an unanticipated occurrence requiring an adhoc solution, and used the apron piece to stem the flow until it had stopped...


Otherwise, some readers might think you meant

I am as yet unpersuaded that Jack ... used the apron piece to stem the flow until it had stopped...

which is not what you meant.

Ahh, I see. You're correct. That's not what I meant. Thank you.

Cheers, George

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Do you mean use instead of used?

Huh??

I meant


I am as yet unpersuaded that Jack didn't cut himself, an unanticipated occurrence requiring an adhoc solution, and use the apron piece to stem the flow until it had stopped...

instead of

I am as yet unpersuaded that Jack didn't cut himself, an unanticipated occurrence requiring an adhoc solution, and used the apron piece to stem the flow until it had stopped...


Otherwise, some readers might think you meant

I am as yet unpersuaded that Jack ... used the apron piece to stem the flow until it had stopped...

which is not what you meant.

[GBinOz]

Do you mean use instead of used?
Huh??

If you are arguing that he could have deposited the organs at his lodgings, after which he disposed of the incriminating piece of cloth in a predominately Jewish area of residence, with an accompanying accusation, then I agree.
If he did carry away organs, IMO he would have come prepared for that task.

As for the possible bloody hand mark on the apron, is it not just as likely that he wiped blood from an uncut hand on the apron?

Hi FM,

He could have quickly wiped blood from his hands and knife at the scene, rather than take away incriminating evidence. I think he needed the apron portion to address an unanticipated occurrence that needed time to resolve itself. JMO.

Cheers, George

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I am as yet unpersuaded that Jack didn't cut himself, an unanticipated occurrence requiring an adhoc solution, and used the apron piece to stem the flow until it had stopped, or he reached a bolt hole, after which he disposed of the incriminating piece of cloth in a predominately Jewish area of residence, with an accompanying accusation. JMO.

Do you mean use instead of used?

If you are arguing that he could have deposited the organs at his lodgings, after which he disposed of the incriminating piece of cloth in a predominately Jewish area of residence, with an accompanying accusation, then I agree.

As for the possible bloody hand mark on the apron, is it not just as likely that he wiped blood from an uncut hand on the apron?