EU Vote

[Robert]

Hi Jeff

I suspect that Cameron never imagined that the Labour Party would implode the way that it did, which (from a publicity point of view) tended to sideline them during the referendum debate. I suspect also that he didn't anticipate that 'big name' tories such as Gove and Johnson would come out for leaving.

[Mayerling]

The general consensus on the thread is that, as Cameron pushed for a national referendum on Brexit as a proof of his having majority support, it blowing up in his face and forcing him to relinquish No. 10 and the cat was deserved. If so, it is the oddest twist on "vote of confidence" politics since 1895, when the pathetic Prime Minister, Lord Roseberry (who wanted to get out of the office badly) used a relatively unimportant vote on cordite (an explosive used by the military) that was lost, as grounds to resign on a "lost vote of confidence"! It took everyone, including the Tory leader, Lord Salisbury, by surprise, but now the Tories and their Unionist allies were back in control of No. 10.

Jeff

[caz]

Of course it all went wrong when Boris Johnson decided to back the Brexit campaign, despite previously saying "I'm not an outer." Then again, after the result was declared he didn't appear very jubilant- in fact, he looked more like someone about to attend a funeral! Which, I think,tells you everything you need to know about his actual motives.

I think the issue is that as soon as the result was announced, he knew he had a place in government. Not necessarily as the Prime Minister, but a place in government all the same. And, so he adopted a more statesman like approach.

I suspect Boris looked boot-faced because he was suddenly confronted with the reality of having to do some serious hard daily grind for a change as a major Brexiter representing 52% of the voters. Cameron, having been disbelieved by the majority, could - had to - wash his hands of it.

Love,

Caz
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[caz]

I'll caveat this by saying I'm not a natural Labour voter, but I find it very hard to vote for the Conservative Party given my background in a mining area in the North East. So, I don't vote for either. I'd go as far as to say I can't stand Labour, but I also have a problem with social Conservatism.

That said, do you think Corbyn is more principled than say Cameron?

Hi FM,

All I would say is that Corbyn appears to me to be one the most principled personalities I have ever encountered in politics. Up there with Clement Attlee and Tony Benn.

I also think Cameron should have been a lot more careful what he wished for.

Love,

Caz
X

[Fleetwood Mac]

Of course it all went wrong when Boris Johnson decided to back the Brexit campaign, despite previously saying "I'm not an outer." Then again, after the result was declared he didn't appear very jubilant- in fact, he looked more like someone about to attend a funeral! Which, I think,tells you everything you need to know about his actual motives.

I think the issue is that as soon as the result was announced, he knew he had a place in government. Not necessarily as the Prime Minister, but a place in government all the same. And, so he adopted a more statesman like approach.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Caligo,

I'm not supposed to say exactly where I worked, or who for, but I was in Croydon, south London, which affords a clue of sorts.

I never actually met any of the MPs related to my job, but I got to know which ones consistently put in the most time and effort to represent their constituents. I left in the summer of 1987 to have my daughter.

Corbyn is certainly an old-school conviction politician, and he was frowned upon by others in the party for not coming down firmly on one side or the other and sticking with it in the run-up to the referendum. I found that one of the most refreshingly honest things to admit - that he wasn't sure enough of the potential consequences to commit wholly to leave or remain. That would have been a more honest response from politicians of every hue, yet he is condemned as too wishy-washy to provide leadership.

Love,

Caz
X

I'll caveat this by saying I'm not a natural Labour voter, but I find it very hard to vote for the Conservative Party given my background in a mining area in the North East. So, I don't vote for either. I'd go as far as to say I can't stand Labour, but I also have a problem with social Conservatism.

That said, do you think Corbyn is more principled than say Cameron?

[Limehouse]

I lived in Crouch End in the early 1980s and Jeremy Corbyn was then a local councillor. He was extremely hard working and dedicated - not only to local issues but to wider concerns such as CND and the campaign against Apartheid in South Africa. In 1983 he became a local MP and I continued to bump into him now and then as I worked in Camden, and later Archway, on various youth projects.

I completely agree with Caz when she points out that he was nothing but honest about his views on Europe. He has deep reservations about the way the EU is becoming more federal, about certain trade practices such as TTIP and about the drive towards privatisation which the EU, with its anti-monopoly rules, favours. On the other hand, the EU has encouraged, even demanded, fundamental rights for workers and individuals which he supports with a passion.

If people want a leader who will stand up in parliament and destroy the opposition with derision, with clever schoolboy puns and with spin and half truths, JC is not that leader. He is not that man. However, regardless of what some of the parliamentary Labour members are saying and doing, his track record with the electorate and his popularity with many members of the public who are not even traditional Labour supporters speaks for itself.

[caz]

Hi Caligo,

I'm not supposed to say exactly where I worked, or who for, but I was in Croydon, south London, which affords a clue of sorts.

I never actually met any of the MPs related to my job, but I got to know which ones consistently put in the most time and effort to represent their constituents. I left in the summer of 1987 to have my daughter.

Corbyn is certainly an old-school conviction politician, and he was frowned upon by others in the party for not coming down firmly on one side or the other and sticking with it in the run-up to the referendum. I found that one of the most refreshingly honest things to admit - that he wasn't sure enough of the potential consequences to commit wholly to leave or remain. That would have been a more honest response from politicians of every hue, yet he is condemned as too wishy-washy to provide leadership.

Love,

Caz
X

[Caligo Umbrator]

Hi, Caz.

Where did you work? I lived up in Crouch End/Wood Green area in the mid-eighties and met Corbyn a few times. I particularly remember his presence in the 1987 campaign. Terrific fellow; always seemed very genuine and honest in his politics but was sadly teetotal. On the other end of the spectrum, I also bumped into Bill Cash once. I wasn't one for his politics but he always made a good case for his views and happily, at that time at least, seemed pleased to indulge in a pint or two.


Yours, Caligo

[Mayerling]

Hello Robert,

Yes, I would send to agree with you about tariffs in general. However, the point is that if other nations apply tariffs to British goods then Britain is absolutely entitled to retaliate, particularly if the alternative is that an entire industry is eliminated.

I can see that it would be fair, but John it would be disastrous. Economic Historians will tell you that one reason the Great Depression lasted so long was the tariff walls that came up around the globe in the wake of the U.S. Smoot - Hawley Tariff of 1930 (one of the most misguided ideas in our history). The other tariff walls were built against us in retaliation.

Jeff

[Robert]

Corbyn's in the unfortunate position of being in charge of a party whose MPs have by and large gone on strike. I hope said MPs are not drawing their salary.

[caz]

doesn't automatically mean that they don't do any work in their constituencies during these recess times

I don't know if that would apply to the likes of Boris though. One of his former constituents was on the radio last week complaining that he used to do sod all as their MP and "took the piss".

When I was working in a Home Office department in the late eighties, I never knew anyone so busy on a daily basis, and so dedicated to representing his constituents as Jeremy Corbyn, even though I wasn't a fan of his politics.

Love,

Caz
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[Robert]

He's arrogant enough to try it, Caz.

[caz]

Hi Caz

I don't think he had any inkling at all - if he had, he would never have called the referendum in the first place. I think he wanted to nobble UKIP by removing their raison d'etre. A win would have meant burying the issue for the next 40 years. I think he calculated that the same Project Fear that worked on the Scots, would work on the whole UK. According to an account I read, he and his aides were still in confident mood when they sat down to watch the TV coverage. It was only when the first results started to come in that the atmosphere turned sombre.

In that case Cameron really did shoot himself in the foot, didn't he? He promised a referendum to fix what he didn't consider to be broke, imagining that most of the electorate were as happy with the way things were and would vote accordingly?

If he had promised a referendum on whether to carry on taxing booze and fags or not, would he have believed he only needed to scare us with the disastrous health consequences to get a nice fat majority voting to carry on as before?

Love,

Caz
X

[Svensson]

doesn't automatically mean that they don't do any work in their constituencies during these recess times