EU Vote

[Robert]

It's like a turkey giving everyone a vote for Christmas in March, so it can secure its place at the head of the table, then trying desperately to turn everyone veggie by November when it realises its mistake

Don't forget to put the sprouts on, Caz.

[caz]

Meanwhile, Nigel Farrage is joining Steve Hilton by outing himself as a Trump Supporter by showing his face in Cleveland this week. They are both in excellent company with the other mysogonistic, bible-bashing, gun-wielding yokels of the RNC convention. Oh, and I forgot to mention openly racist politicians like Geert Wilders... I guess only Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Boris Johnson are missing to complete the set. Seriousy, am I really the only one who is worried about the way these things are going..?

No you're not, Svensson, but then I'm insane apparently.

OK, so that's the left-wing steam let of a little, back to my straight down-the-middle opinion again soon.

And you are temporarily insane.

Love,

Caz
X

[Svensson]

Meanwhile, Nigel Farrage is joining Steve Hilton by outing himself as a Trump Supporter by showing his face in Cleveland this week. They are both in excellent company with the other mysogonistic, bible-bashing, gun-wielding yokels of the RNC convention. Oh, and I forgot to mention openly racist politicians like Geert Wilders... I guess only Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Boris Johnson are missing to complete the set. Seriousy, am I really the only one who is worried about the way these things are going..?

Slightly OT, but it seems that Trump has decided that he will only invoke NATO defence action when the country that has been attacked had "fulfilled its obligations towards the united states". Well, first of all, it seems that he will decide for himself what these so-called obligations are and if they had been fulfilled or not. But the point here is surely that a country needs to fulfil its obligations towards NATO, not a particular member of NATO. So it seems that this is just a continuation of his attempt to run a protection racket with South Korea and Japan. This guy has clearly no concept of what has maintained world peace over the last 70 years and THAT is seriously freaky.

OK, so that's the left-wing steam let of a little, back to my straight down-the-middle opinion again soon.

[caz]

Cameron principled bullshit. The only reason he came up with the Referendum was as a vote winner.

Hi John,

Agreed.

Cameron never expected people to vote leave.

That doesn't quite make sense to me because if he thought the majority wanted to remain (and therefore didn't want or need a vote on it), then offering us a referendum would not have been the vote winner it turned out to be. He must have had enough self belief to think he could change the minds of all those he hoped would vote him back into power just so they could vote us out of the EU! Either that, or he didn't see far enough into the future when pressing our 'referendum' buttons in return for another go at being PM.

It's like a turkey giving everyone a vote for Christmas in March, so it can secure its place at the head of the table, then trying desperately to turn everyone veggie by November when it realises its mistake.

But yes, if he seriously thought he could get away with offering a referendum that he didn't actually want for himself or for the country, believing he would never have to deliver on it, it would suggest he was either stupid or unprincipled, or both.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hi Caz,

You wouldn't be left-wing by any chance and so have a favoured horse?

Blimey, you're on fire, FM.

Cameron ensured there was a referendum on the matter, and considering the vote was to Leave then that alone is evidence that the people wanted a referendum, so fair play to him.

The 'people' would jump at a referendum on giving us all a million pounds each, or abolishing income tax, athlete's foot or dandruff, but if Cameron had promised one, would you have said 'fair play to him'?

What would you have preferred: Cameron playing politics to escape a referendum at the expense of the will of the public?

It's not about what I personally prefer, though, is it? If Cameron knew the will of the majority was to leave the EU, then yes, he did the honourable thing by not trying to escape from his referendum promise. But did he know? I actually gave him the benefit of the doubt when I said he must have had an inkling if he considered that promise to be a vote catcher, and it duly got him back into number ten. Other posters believe the Brexit vote caught him completely by surprise, so it's far from cut and dried.

Love,

Caz
X

[Svensson]

Have you ever considered going into politics yourself..?

[Geddy2112]

This just in......

Politicians lie and spout BS just to further their own agenda and line their own pockets, they do not give one hoot about the vast majority of the people they are supposed to serve...

[John Wheat]

Wouldn't the definition of unprincipled be disavowing your beliefs for the sake of your career, as you suggest Corbyn did; whereas Cameron put his career on the line for the vote?

You left-wing lot are ****in' insane. Which is supported by the fact you're still marching 'round London in a vain attempt to have the vote changed.

To Fleetwood Mac

I take your point about Corbyn however David Cameron has again and again proved himself to be full of ****. Also I can assure you I am not marching 'round London. I really don't see the point the vote has been cast.

Cheers John

[John G]

Wouldn't the definition of unprincipled be disavowing your beliefs for the sake of your career, as you suggest Corbyn did; whereas Cameron put his career on the line for the vote?

You left-wing lot are ****in' insane. Which is supported by the fact you're still marching 'round London in a vain attempt to have the vote changed.

I think your correct about Corbyn, and frankly his response to the result-"I did my best" was pathetic, because frankly mate, your best wasn't nearly good enough.

Corbyn has presented himself as a principled, conviction politician, and it's therefore his own fault that he allowed himself to be steamrolled into supporting, albeit in a lacklustre way, something he probably didn't believe in. Frankly he should have stuck to his guns and I'm afraid he's only got himself to blame for not doing so.

[John G]

I think the issue is that as soon as the result was announced, he knew he had a place in government. Not necessarily as the Prime Minister, but a place in government all the same. And, so he adopted a more statesman like approach.

I'm not sure Boris Johnson and statesman are compatible. Alright, he was okay as a panel game host, but Foreign Secretary? Mind you, at least he's made an effort to comb his hair!

[John G]

I can see that it would be fair, but John it would be disastrous. Economic Historians will tell you that one reason the Great Depression lasted so long was the tariff walls that came up around the globe in the wake of the U.S. Smoot - Hawley Tariff of 1930 (one of the most misguided ideas in our history). The other tariff walls were built against us in retaliation.

Jeff

Yes, I agree. Of course, Donald Trump is threatening to adopt the same protectionist policies. For instance, he's intimated that he'll tear up NAFTA of he doesn't get what he wants, and has threatened to impose heavy tariffs on China and Mexico, because of what he sees as unfair competition. He's also stated that, if American companies relocate their factories abroad, then tariffs should be imposed on those goods.

However, this policy is likely to lead to spiralling inflation, as it amounts to an effective tax on imported goods. And, of course, other countries will retaliate which, as you say, is exactly what happened in the 1930s as a consequence of Smoot Hawley.

[Svensson]

You left-wing lot are ****in' insane. Which is supported by the fact you're still marching 'round London in a vain attempt to have the vote changed.

That's not the consensus of the "Remain" camp though. the vast majority, and I do mean vast majority, accept the referendum result but this should not stop us from continuing to make the argument for EU support. Likewise, after an election you still have an opposition. They don't allow the government free reign for 5 years and sit on their hands.

Besides, I don't consider myself left-wing at all but a progressive. I don;t believe in taking steps backwards as a matter of principle and disapprove of the way the campaign has been fought by the Leave campaign with their shameless lies and inventions. In fact, I'm probably the only one here who is openly prepared to stick up for our existing institutions which is rare in a time when "status quo"-bashing is the fashion of the day (which is a separate discussion IMO but Brexit, Trump, Wilders and AfD are symptoms of this)

Latest example: Today's Daily Express front page. But then the Daily Express could be used just about any day to support this particular argument....

[Fleetwood Mac]

Cameron principled bullshit. The only reason he came up with the Referendum was as a vote winner. Cameron never expected people to vote leave. Corbin was put in a difficult position he has never been a supporter of the EU however the majority of his party wanted to remain in the EU.

Cheers John

Wouldn't the definition of unprincipled be disavowing your beliefs for the sake of your career, as you suggest Corbyn did; whereas Cameron put his career on the line for the vote?

You left-wing lot are ****in' insane. Which is supported by the fact you're still marching 'round London in a vain attempt to have the vote changed.

[John Wheat]

Hi Caz,

You wouldn't be left-wing by any chance and so have a favoured horse?

Corbyn isn't that principled as we all know he isn't a natural EU supporter seeing as his politics aren't aligned with the EU. Yet after years of saying: "Leave", when push came to shove he changed his tune and said "Remain" (with a luke-warm heart at that).

Cameron ensured there was a referendum on the matter, and considering the vote was to Leave then that alone is evidence that the people wanted a referendum, so fair play to him. What would you have preferred: Cameron playing politics to escape a referendum at the expense of the will of the public?

Cameron is not someone I would vote for on the grounds of a few reasons, but he is certainly no less principled than Corbyn.

Cameron principled bullshit. The only reason he came up with the Referendum was as a vote winner. Cameron never expected people to vote leave. Corbin was put in a difficult position he has never been a supporter of the EU however the majority of his party wanted to remain in the EU.

Cheers John

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi FM,

All I would say is that Corbyn appears to me to be one the most principled personalities I have ever encountered in politics. Up there with Clement Attlee and Tony Benn.

I also think Cameron should have been a lot more careful what he wished for.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Caz,

You wouldn't be left-wing by any chance and so have a favoured horse?

Corbyn isn't that principled as we all know he isn't a natural EU supporter seeing as his politics aren't aligned with the EU. Yet after years of saying: "Leave", when push came to shove he changed his tune and said "Remain" (with a luke-warm heart at that).

Cameron ensured there was a referendum on the matter, and considering the vote was to Leave then that alone is evidence that the people wanted a referendum, so fair play to him. What would you have preferred: Cameron playing politics to escape a referendum at the expense of the will of the public?

Cameron is not someone I would vote for on the grounds of a few reasons, but he is certainly no less principled than Corbyn.