EU Vote

[Svensson]

"Fascism"? Whoah!! Especially coming from the Leave camp?

But apart from that, no, there shouldn't be a second referendum, no matter what Nigel Farrage says This of course does not stop some people from talking about it but it won't happen. The fact that the referendum was based on largely incorrect information is one I had bemoaned long before the result but instead, we would need to make sure lessons will be learned from that.

Btw, as with others who chose to play Cricket the day after being suspected of heinous crimes, do we know what Boris Johnson's score was?

[Robert]

We got a great result. But the Remainers are trying every trick in the book - and a few outside it - to get the vote overturned. Such is the nature of fascism.

[Aldebaran]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=JFt-pRIvL9E

This man usually tells it like it is.

[Robert]

Could be, Julie.

The Scots might be able to dodge having to queue up behind the other applicants, but I'm not sure they can dodge joining the Euro currency.

[Limehouse]

Hi Jon

Blame doesn't come into it. I believe that nations should be independent. If the Scots think they're a nation, then they should be independent. The only thing that baffles me is, why on earth would the Scots want their independence and yet want to be part of the EU. There seems to be something about the word 'independence' that they can't quite grasp.

I agree entirely Robert, and what is more, a later post of yours could explain why Scotland is so keen to remain in Europe. They would be net receivers!

[Limehouse]

Julie, as a pensioner I am appreciative of having an annual rise of 2.5% in state pension, way above the current inflation rate. I am also appreciative that Osborne has abolished tax on savings interest. Maybe I'm being slightly self-centered here, but that's life. Cameron is also a supporter of Aston Villa (or was, as I was until they got relegated last season).

I take issue with your statement that the public took the referendum deadly seriously - there was a bimbo on the box the day after the referendum who said, when asked why she voted Brexit, that 'she didn't really know, but I just did'. Sadly, she was not the only one. One week after the referendum, I have yet to find anyone who voted Brexit to actually admit that he or she considered the possible consequences. Frightening, really, but sorry to say a sad reflection of the times we live in.

Corbyn, let's be honest, ain't up to it, Julie. He may be a nice bloke with a horrible beard, but he is not 'leader of a major political party' material. Neither was Milliband. As a non-Labour voter, I actually had a good deal of respect and admiration for Neil Kinnock, and remain surprised that he didn't do better at the 1992 General Election (I can forgive him his triumphalism at Sheffield...) - until then, he was amazingly the longest-serving Leader Of The Opposition in British political history. He'd have had Jeremiah for breakfast with an egg and a fried tomato. Anyway, come this time next week, New Old Labour will have another leader who the members of the party can pour scorn on.

Graham

Hi Graham,

Personally, I would not begrudge you a single penny of your pension or your annual pension rise as you have probably paid in at least one third of your earnings for the whole of your working life. I myself now pay only a fraction of my earnings in tax and National Insurance compared to what I was paying thirty years ago. However, I do have to work an additional six years on top of my expected pension age of 60 thanks to successive governments (Labour and Tory) raising the pension age. It's swings and roundabouts.

I have, like you, heard stories of people voting 'leave' for what seems like ridiculous reasons but, I still feel the majority of people took the referendum seriously, even if they were kept criminally short of real, impartial information about the true consequences of staying or leaving.

As for JC, do not under estimate his popularity with the electorate. Here are just some of the reasons why I think he is an excellent leader:

1. Since his nomination to leadership less than one year ago, Labour has won every bi-election it participated in.
2. Labour has also seen the election of 4 Labour City Mayors, including London and Liverpool.
3. Polls show that Corbyn has overwhelming support of the membership of the Party, if not the Parliamentary Labour Party. Additionally, he is popular with the electorate, the polls consistently showing him ahead of the Tories.
4. Corbyn has been an MP for 32 years and before that a Labour Councillor. In all that time he has had one of the lowest expense claims and is known to be one of the hardest working for his constituents.

It is a great pity that a schism has arisen within the Party just when they could be giving the Tories a run for their money and wining. In my opinion, the media has given Corbyn a very tough ride and, just as within the Tory Party right now, a few politicians with their eye on the prize are making mischief.

Respect, as always

Julie

[Robert]

Yes Jon, Northern Ireland voted to remain, and what's more they voted to stay in the Common Market in 1975. I am totally at a loss to explain their decisions.

[Wickerman]

Perhaps, Jon. But of course there is no such thing as EU money. The EU is financed by the countries that compose it. The UK is a net contributor, so we're only getting back some of what we put in.

If Scotland were to be in the EU as a state in its own right, I imagine it would be a net receiver.

Well yes Robert, but we can say the same for Government money, they don't have any money either, they just (mis)manage our money.
Many of us get some of our taxes back but that doesn't stop us complaining about paying taxes.

To your earlier point about Scotland I do agree about nations being independent, but I hope this does not trigger the old troubles in Northern Ireland again as some have speculated, I know they voted to Remain like Scotland.

[Robert]

If Murdoch is backing Gove, he has a funny way of showing it. Thanks to the 'stab in the back,' Gove's stock is on the way down.

[Svensson]

Cornwall is another example of being a net receiver of EU money which was precisely necessary because Westminster had chronically underfunded that part of the U.K. In any case, that didn't stop them from voting out though.

I just wonder how much Sarah Gove's remark that "Rupert Murdoch instinctively dislikes Boris" has to do with Johnson so meekly waving the white flag. I mean why could he not stand and fight Gove and May? Or did he maybe realise that he can't fight Murdoch? Call me a cynic, but how much influence does someone like Murdoch really have in UK politics and how does he achieve that influence? Does he have a folder of juicy scandals on UK politicians and chooses to use them when he wants to or needs to?

Btw, I don't mind that much actually as I think Boris should go back to pursuing his career as a professional clown, one in which he certainly excelled in the past, but I find the exact circumstances of him stepping aside VERY strange.

Edit: was yesterday's headline in the sun, "Brexecuted!" a bit of a gloat and send-off from Rupert Murdoch?

[Robert]

Perhaps, Jon. But of course there is no such thing as EU money. The EU is financed by the countries that compose it. The UK is a net contributor, so we're only getting back some of what we put in.

If Scotland were to be in the EU as a state in its own right, I imagine it would be a net receiver.

[Wickerman]

Hi JonThe only thing that baffles me is, why on earth would the Scots want their independence and yet want to be part of the EU.

Do you think losing access to this might have something to do with it?

http://www.funding-portal.eu/

It was reported on BBC World News that a number of projects in Scotland were funded with money from the EU.

[Robert]

Hi Jon

Blame doesn't come into it. I believe that nations should be independent. If the Scots think they're a nation, then they should be independent. The only thing that baffles me is, why on earth would the Scots want their independence and yet want to be part of the EU. There seems to be something about the word 'independence' that they can't quite grasp.

[Wickerman]

Actually, Jon, if Britain breaks up over Europe it will be because the Scots will have decided that their loyalties and interests diverge from the rest of the UK. Without the Scottish Remain majority, Brexit would have won by even more. In that situation, if the Scots want to go it alone, good luck to them. We have chosen to leave the EU, and cannot permit the tail to wag the dog.

Hi Robert.

Would the Scots have fancied another referendum for Independence if there had been no Brexit vote?, and would there have been no Brexit vote if Cameron had not allowed this referendum on EU membership?

Cause and effect...

[Robert]

Some words from the Guardian to help its readers cope during this difficult time of trial :

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...erendum-result