JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

Sherry Fiester refers to something similar to the jet effect, but calls it back spatter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_VpUbJQuRc&rco=1&ab_channel=SouthKnollInv estigations

We get barely more than a minute in before the video claims that most witnesses agreed that three or more shots were heard.

That's true, but it would be even more true to say most witnesses agreed that three or less shots were heard.

A tabulation shows
2% heard 1 shot.
12% heard 2 shots.
81% heard 3 shots.
5% heard 4 or more shots.

The video is deliberately being deceptive.

[Fiver]

The cleaning company, Acme Building & Maintenance, would have come into the building after hours, so no one would have thought some one in the building after hours was unusual.

Other members of the Acme Building and maintenance Company would have thought that it was unusual if some besides themselves was in the TSBD after hours. So would members of the Smith Detective Agency and Nightwatch Service, whose were supposed to periodically check the building at night.

That doesn't preclude someone entering the TSBD undetected after hours. But how does this person and their rifle remain undetected after people start showing up to work in the TSBD? Staying overnight is adding pointless additional risk to an already risky plan.

[Fiver]

Do you think that someone might have noticed Oswald carrying in this parcel that morning?


Note the snug fit between the cupped hand and the armpit.

Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.

[Fiver]

The FBI and CIA both had files on Oswald and Ruby before the assassination.

Feel free to provide evidence that the FBI and CIA had files on Ruby.

If people can recall Oswald on New Orleans TV handing out Leaflets for FPCC, that was a proven CIA counter intelligence operation.

If it's proven then you should have no problem providing proof that Oswald was part of a CIA counter intelligence operation in New Orleans.

Ruby was a known low level Mafia owned flunky who ran guns and prostitution for Marcello.

If it's known, you should gave no problem proving Ruby worked for the Mafia. Unless a dozen witnesses are lying, Ruby wasn't running prostitution for anyone. There's only one dubious claim that Ruby was involved in gun running. And Ruby's shaky financial position argues against him being a successful criminal.

It will come out.

No competent Conspiracy would have left records in the first place. And even a mostly incompetent Conspiracy has had 60 years to destroy the evidence.

[Fiver]

Interesting to see Robert Oswald quoted as a reliable source from Fiver who in his previous post said that the Oswald household was 'toxic' due to an uninterested/overindulgent mother.

Robert Oswald was cited to debunk the claim that "One common impression is that those who interacted with Oswald found it impossible to believe that he would be capable of assassinating the US president."

When asked how their mother had done raising Lee, Robert Oswald said "If we go and get right down to the bottom line, we have to say, really and truly, in all candor, [she did] a lousy job, a lousy job."

Robert also said "I don’t know at what age Mother verbalized the effect that she felt he was a burden to her. But she certainly conveyed it to John and I at very early ages. We’re talking seven, eight, nine, 10 years old. At what age Lee started gathering this, or sensing it, or hearing it and applying it to him, I don’t know. But certainly by age three, he had the sense, “I need to be someplace else.” Mother would be putting him with a nanny, or a babysitter, or in an orphan home with us, just to get us out of her hair. We were a burden."

[cobalt]

Yet despite being seen as a burden Robert Oswald never shot at the POTUS. So why did Lee?

[Patrick Differ]

Fiver this is all public domain HSCA and WC stuff. It's well cataloged in Chokeholds..Jim DiEugenio, Paul Bleau, Matt Crumpton , Andrew Iler and Mark Adamczyk...all recognized authorities on the subject.

Some people just want to know if it's government killed one of its Leaders and possibly 2 others. So if you believe the government of that time, good for you. I'm not sure why anyone would want to defend the WC or HSCA. Neither used any Standard of Proof as I mentioned before. That means the assassination was never thoroughly investigated.

Cant wait to hear how these experts are discredited.

[Patrick Differ]

Warren Commission XXII:CE 1205..Dallas Sheriff on Ruby and prostitution

ABC News 2003 interview with Robert Blakey..discusses Oswald as a Mob Hit and also relationship with Carlos Marcello

HSCA Volume VIII. Demolished WC rigged Jack Ruby polygraph

Burt Griffin and Leon Hubert were tasked to investigate Ruby for the WC. They stated that both Oswald and Ruby had ties to Cuban activities and Rubyvto the point of both gun sales and smuggling. Leads that neither WC nor HSCA followed up.

But others have and are.

[GBinOz]

Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.

This post epitomises the standard of evidence proffered by the WC Apologists. Dougherty testifies that when he saw Oswald enter the building he was NOT carrying any sort of large package. But then we have some hearsay that Shelley "thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package". How did this "fairly good-sized package" escape Dougherty's notice? Where is the testimony of "the fellows that said they did"? Somehow a negative is proposed to be a positive.

Where was this package hidden and why did no one see it carried to the sixth floor. Why did no one see him re-assemble the rifle, a task requiring time and at least a screwdriver. It seems that as well as a magic bullet, there is a magic dis-appearing/re-appearing rifle that can also transform from a Mauser 7.65 to a Mannlicher 6.5.

How did he re-assemble the rifle without getting fingerprints all over it? The FBI found no useable fingerprints, but Day said he found one smudged print and a palm print (which he did not photograph as was required). So we have magical dis-appearing fingerprints as well. When McCloy asked (WC Vol IV Page 262) Day if he had matched the fingerprints to Oswald, Day replied that he hadn't, but that in his opinion they would have matched. Oswald's fingerprints were not identified as being on the rifle, the expended cases, the live round, the ammo clip, the revolver from the theatre or the cases allegedly dumped at the Tippet murder site. Solid evidence indeed.

When three expended cases were allegedly found way in front of the shooter's position, Day placed them in an envelope without scratching his name on the brass as is required for a chain of custody. There is a written statement, and a typed statement, and a photograph that shows that the FBI received only two expended cases. When Day received the envelope and cases back at ten o'clock that night he belatedly scratched his name in the brass. Only two of the cases entered into evidence have Day's name on the case. So we also have a magic dis-appearing cartridge case.

Oswald's prints were found on boxes on the sixth floor. How is this extraordinary? He worked there moving those boxes. There was also a print on a box used as a rest for the sniper that was matched to the convicted murderer Malcom Wallace, who had no reason to be there. Both Hoover and Curry stated that they did not have evidence that would place Oswald on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting.

How the WC nonsense is presented as a legitimate argument beggars belief.

[Fiver]

A design feature of the Carcano was that the ammo clip fell out of the rifle when the last round was loaded into the chamber....

That is incorrect. The ammo clip dropped out of the Carcano when the last round was fired.

[Fiver]

I have yet to hear the WC folks comment on the fact that Kennedy and Connally were misaligned by 6 to 10 inches across the horizontal in comparison to a shot from above, on an acute angle, offset by half a body length ( clearly seen in the Zapruder film - seating arrangement)

Then you haven't been paying attention. I have repeatedly posted links.

Here's another one.

[Patrick Differ]

Dont patronize me Fiver. That demonstration is staged using gelatin? That's your proof? And Connallys torso is perfectly aligned ? Try again.

[Fiver]

The WC never put Oswald in the window with a gun and that frustrated Fritz. There are no credible witnesses that did eventhough the WC claims it found one.

That is an inaccurate description. Howard Brennan saw someone on the 6th floor. The description matched Oswald, but since Brennan had seen Oswald on TV before the lineup, he couldn't be 100% sure.

In fact there is eyewitness evidence that places Oswald on the 1st and 2nd floors at 12:15 and 12:25....

That is an inaccurate description.

Mrs. R. E. ARNOLD, Secretary, Texas School Book Depository, advised she was in her office on the second floor of the building on November 22, 1963, and left that office between 12:00 and 12:15 PM, to go downstairs and stand in front of the building to view the Presidential Motorcade. As she was standing in front of the building, she stated she thought she caught a fleeting glimpse of LEE HARVEY OSWALD standing in the hallway between the front door and the double doors leading to the warehouse, located on the first floor. She could not be sure that this was OSWALD, but said she felt it was and believed the time to be a few minutes before 12:15 PM.

....and on the 2nd floor 78 seconds after Kennedy was shot.

That is an inaccurate description.

Mr. BAKER - The first shot.
We simulated the shots and by the time we got there, we did everything that I did that day, and this would be the minimum, because I am sure that I, you know. it took me a little longer.
Mr. DULLES - I want to get clear in my mind and for the record, it started at the first shot and when did it terminate, when you saw Oswald?
Mr. BAKER - When we saw Oswald.
Mr. DULLES - When you saw Oswald?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES - And that time is how much?
Mr. BAKER - The first run would be a minute and 30 seconds, and then we did it over, and we did it in a minute and 15 seconds.

Mr. BELIN - You mentioned the relationship between what we did on March 20 and what actually occurred on November 22. Would you estimate that what we did on March 20 was the maximum or the minimum as for the time you took?
Mr. BAKER - I would say it would be the minimum.
Mr. BELIN - For instance, on March 20 did we do anything about trying to get through any people on the front steps of the building at all? Did we slow down at all for that?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did we slow down at all on March 20 for the time it took you to look over the scene as to what was happening in the area down Elm Street and the Parkway?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir.

[Fiver]

The Warren Commission at this point is laughable. It only took 4 months to investigate the most important crime of the 20th Century.

The Warren Commission first met on December 5, 1963. It submitted its findings on September 24, 1964.

That's quite a bit more than 4 months.

[Fiver]

Fine timing number four. LHO leaves his rooming house at around 1.03 by general consent. To kill JD Tippit at 1.15 he would have to be a real athlete for sure. If we accept the likelier time of 1.09 it is impossible unless he was driven there.

How do you get 1:09 as a likelier time?

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what time it was approximately that Oswald came in?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say because
Mr. BALL.. How long did he stay in the room ?
Mr. ROBERTS. Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes-just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it.