JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

It became clear that this bullet alone could not have caused all of Connally’s injuries:

So you're claiming that Connally was shot by multiple bullets? That makes no sense.

* Unless God was shooting at Connally, the thigh wound must have come from a bullet deflecting off of Connally's wrist.
* Unless Connally shot himself in the wrist with an invisible gun, the wrist wound came from the bullet that passed through Cannally's torso.

[LIST][*]Despite the great destruction it had apparently caused, the bullet had suffered very little damage. Its base was slightly squashed, and its copper sheath possessed several fine scratches, but the bullet was otherwise intact. It was supposed to have destroyed four inches of one of Connally’s ribs and shattered the radius bone in his wrist, one of the densest bones in the human body. To determine whether the condition of the bullet was consistent with these injuries, two sets of tests were conducted:[LIST][*]The US Army fired ten similar bullets into the wrists of human cadavers. In all ten cases, the bullets were severely damaged.2

Firing bullest directly into the wrist of cadavers was not an accurate test. 1992 tests by Failure Analysis with lower velocity, as would be expected from a bullet that had passed through Connally's chest, did not result in bullet fragmentation from striking cadaver wrists, and the test bullets were generally less deformed than CE 399.

[*]More metal had been deposited in Governor Connally’s wounds than was missing from the bullet.

This is provably false. Testing showed unfired 6.5mm Carcano bullets weighed 161.2 grains. The stretcher bullet weighed 158.6 grains, a difference of 2.6 grains. Analysis of the combined weight of all fragments in Connally's wounds come to only 1.5 grains. Also, neutron activation testing proves that the bullet fragments from Connally's wounds came from CE 399.

[Fiver]

[/LIST]The Provenance of the Bullet


It also became clear that the bullet presented to the Warren Commission had not come from Governor Connally’s stretcher.

There had been two stretchers outside the operating theatre: one had held Connally, while the other had had no connection with either Connally or Kennedy. Darrell Tomlinson, the hospital employee who discovered the bullet, was insistent that he had found it on the other stretcher.

That is wrong.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, do you recollect what the FBI man asked you about?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Just about where I found the bullet.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he ask you about these stretchers?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, he asked me about the stretchers, yes, just about the same thing we've gone over here.
Mr. SPECTER. What did the Secret Service man ask you about?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Approximately the same thing, only, we've gone into more detail here.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you tell the Secret Service man about which stretcher you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I told him that I was not sure, and I am not--I'm not sure of it, but as I said, I would be going against the oath which I took a while ago, because I am definitely not sure.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you remember if you told the Secret Service man which stretcher you thought you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, we talked about taking a stretcher off of the elevator, but then when it comes down on an oath, I wouldn't say for sure, I really don't remember.
Mr. SPECTER. And do you recollect whether or not you told the Secret Service man which stretcher you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. What do you mean?
Mr. SPECTER. You say you can't really take an oath today to be sure whether it was stretcher A or stretcher B that you took off the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, today or any other day, I'm just not sure of it, whether it was A or B that I took off.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, has your recollection always been the same about the situation, that is, today, and when you talked to the Secret Service man and when you talked to the FBI man?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; I told him that I wasn't sure.
Mr. SPECTER. So, what you told the Secret Service man was just about the same thing as you have told me today?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. When I first started to ask you about this, Mr. Tomlinson, you initially identified stretcher A as the one which came off of the elevator car?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; I think it's just like that
Mr. SPECTER. And, then, when
Mr. TOMLINSON. (interrupting). Here's the deal--I rolled that thing off, we got a call, and went to second floor, picked the man up and brought him down. He went on over across, to clear out of the emergency area, but across from it, and picked up two pints of, I believe it was, blood. He told me to hold for him, he had to get right back to the operating room, so I held, and the minute he hit there, we took off for the second floor and I came. back to the ground. Now, I don't know how many people went through that---I don't know how many people hit them--I don't know anything about what could have happened to them in between the time I was gone, and I made several trips before I discovered the bullet on the end of it there.
Mr. SPECTER. You think, then, that this could have been either, you took out of the elevator as you sit here at the moment, or you just can't be sure?
Mr. TOMLINSON. It could be, but I can't be positive or positively sure I think it was A, but I'm not sure.
Mr. SPECTER. That you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, before I started to ask you questions under oath, which have been taken down here, I told you, did I not, that the Secret Service man wrote a report where he said that the bullet was found on the stretcher which you took off of the elevator---I called that to your attention, didn't I?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; you told me that.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, after I tell you that, does that have any effect on refreshing your recollection of what you told the Secret Service man?
Mr. TOMLINSON. No it really doesn't---it really doesn't.
Mr. SPECTER. So, would it be a fair summary to say that when I first started to talk to you about it, your first view was that the stretcher you took off of the elevator was stretcher A, and then I told you that the Secret Service man said it was---that you had said the stretcher you took off of the elevator was the one that you found the bullet off, and when we talked about the whole matter and talked over the entire situation, you really can't be completely sure about which stretcher you took off of the elevator, because you didn't push the stretcher that you took off of the elevator right against the wall at first?
Mr. TOMLINSON. That's right.
Mr. SPECTER. And, there was a lot of confusion that day, which is what you told me before?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Absolutely. And now, honestly, I don't remember telling him definitely-I know we talked about it, and I told him that it could have been. Now, he might have drawed his own conclusion on that.
Mr. SPECTER. You told the Secret Service agent that you didn't know where---
Mr. TOMLINSON. (interrupting). He asked me if it could have been brought down from the second floor.
Mr. SPECTER. You got the stretcher from where the bullet came from, whether it was brought down from the second floor?
Mr. TOMLINSON. It could have been--I'm not sure whether it was A I took off.
Mr. SPECTER. But did you tell the Secret Service man which one you thought it was you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I'm not clear on that---whether I absolutely made a positive statement to that effect.
Mr. SPECTER. You told him that it could have been B you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. That's right.
Mr. SPECTER. But, you don't remember whether you told him it was A you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I think it was A---I'm not really sure.
Mr. SPECTER. Which did you tell the Secret Service agent--that you thought it was A that you took off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Really, I couldn't be real truthful in saying I told him this or that.
Mr. SPECTER. You just don't remember for sure whether you told him you thought it was A or not?
Mr. TOMLINSON. No, sir; I really don't remember. I'm not accustomed to being questioned by the Secret Service and the FBI and by you and they are writing down everything, I mean.

Now let's look at the idea that CE 399 was planted.

* Why would a Conspiracy have planted a bullet in the first place? If there were more than 3 shots, the Conspiracy would be trying to remove bullets and bullet fragments to bring it down to 3 bullets, not planting more.

* Why would a Conspiracy plant the bullet on a stretcher, where it could have been missed completely? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have dropped it inside the car?

* Why would a Conspiracy plant a lightly damaged bullet? A heavily damaged one gives more slack for the weight of bullet fragments found inside of Connally and Kennedy.

* How would a Conspiracy know where to plant the bullet? Tomlinson took Connally's stretcher down the elevator, how would the Conspiracy have known where he was taking it?

* How dd the Conspiracy get so lucky as to plant a fake bullet that would fool neutron scanning matches done by the HSC in 1976, over a decade after the shooting?

[Patrick Differ]

A full metal jacket bullet is meant to stop an opponent at long range and the soft nosed to do more tissue damage at shorter ranges. The tissue damage to JFKs head was massive according to the Parkland Doctors. The Zapruder film shows a head moving forward at the same time it explodes back and to the left. Laws of physics show possibly 2 shots hitting the head in microseconds. This is possible in the laws of physics.

One question is if JFK were hit from a full metal jacketed bullet in the head, where did it go? It would not have exploded or deformed if we are to believe the single bullet theory on that type bullet performance, from the same gun. Did it hit the windshield? Agent Kellerman sitting in front of Connally who was by then on his back and down, said he thought it was more like a shooting gallery. He was not hit but in the line of fire?

On the other hand, a shot from the grassy knoll with a soft nose bullet from a gun like the Remington X100 or similar gun would explain the tissue damage and fragmentation illustrated by physics. A full metal jacket would have exited.

Unfortunately Oswald was assassinated and the Limo was sent to Detroit and scrubbed. How convenient and unbelievable that evidence would be so treated in the Murder of a President.

Oswald is innocent until proven guilty. Since he was assassinated that is impossible so in terms of fact..Oswald was never proven to be the killer. There would have been a defense.

The bullet type and wounds are one issue. The timing is another between film and gun performance and trajectory angles and the number of bullets is the third. All 3 of these issues are not conclusively proven.

Would the government lie to its citizens and withold documents? This happened in 1963.. it's 2025.

[Fiver]

SAnother hospital employee, O.P. Wright, who also saw the bullet on the stretcher, was not called to testify. Three years later, a researcher showed a photograph of the CE 399 bullet to Wright, who claimed that the bullet he had seen on the stretcher was of an entirely different type.

If a Conspiracy was going to plant a bullet, why would they switch it for a different bullet?

Who is running this Conspiracy; Moe, Larry, and Curly?

[Fiver]

To prove the soure totally wrong ,all you have to do is show Evidence of the 3rd bullet shot from the TSBD was caused by a metal jacketed bullet ,just like C399.

The HSCA proved it in 1976. Neutron activation tests showed CE 843 (from JFK's brain) and CE 567 (found on the front floorboard) were parts of the same bullet. CE 567 is the nose portion of a damaged 6.5-millimeter caliber full metal-jacketed, lead core bullet.

[Herlock Sholmes]

If we found absolutely conclusive proof of the rippers identity. Evidence that every Ripperologist conceded made it ‘game over’ would be feel obliged to keep repeating that the ripper was ‘innocent until proven guilty’ because he hadn’t made it to court? Oswald was proven guilty by an overwhelming weight of evidence. To believe that he was innocent you would have to be willing to stand up and say “I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald took a package of curtain rods to work which subsequently vanished into thin air.”

[Herlock Sholmes]

The HSCA proved it in 1976. Neutron activation tests showed CE 843 (from JFK's brain) and CE 567 (found on the front floorboard) were parts of the same bullet. CE 567 is the nose portion of a damaged 6.5-millimeter caliber full metal-jacketed, lead core bullet.

Prepare for the standard cry of ‘fake,’ Fiver.

[Herlock Sholmes]

If a Conspiracy was going to plant a bullet, why would they switch it for a different bullet?

Who is running this Conspiracy; Moe, Larry, and Curly?

The Stooges would have come up with a far more sensible plan.

[Doctored Whatsit]

'' although it can be argued that it wasn't a totally genuine trial''....... Without a real jury,, kinda makes a hugh difference one would think.

There was a jury, as I clearly explained, everything was conducted as if it were a real trial, the evidence was presented, and Oswald was found guilty unanimously. That was all I was pointing out, just for information purposes. I did this to cast some doubt on your claim that "no jury on earth would convict". In the only genuine attempt to create a real trial, he was found guilty. So I would suggest that it is certainly possible that a real jury would have convicted him

[Herlock Sholmes]

What jury would have taken seriously stories about curtain rods, planted fingerprints, all the witnesses identifying Oswald as the killer of Tippit being wrong, faked autopsy’s and x-rays. Theories and suspicions and wish thinking can’t beat evidence. Oswald would have been found guilty every time. Escaped justice when the barking mad Ruby shot him.

[Fiver]

Laws of physics show possibly 2 shots hitting the head in microseconds.

While two shots hitting within microseconds is theoretically possible, it would be impossible to do that on purpose.

Yet the Conspiracy requires that impossibility to hide a second shooter from the video evidence.

That's before we get into the Conspiracy having to falsify all of the forensic evidence so skillfully that it still holds up over 60 years later.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’ll try one more time.

Why would our conspirators undertake a plan which required Oswald not being interrupted by co-workers, the need for fingerprints to be planted, a fake autopsy organised and set up, faked x-rays, faked photographs, forged documents, the setting up of the shooting of a police officer with a load of witnesses all fingering LHO and the setting up and maintaining of a corrupt government commission instead of - man with gun behind fence, bang, escape via waiting car. No need for further action before, during or after the event.

The answer is that they wouldn’t. You will all feel much better if you just say it - no one would possibly, under any circumstances, no matter how stupid or insane the plotters were, have chosen such a plan.

Therefore…it cannot have happened.

This is the way to approach the case. Not by reading Garrison, Lane, Groden etc.

Climb out of the rabbit-hole of conspiracy and take a dip in the cool reason and common sense of Lone Gunman Lake.

[Doctored Whatsit]

What jury would have taken seriously stories about curtain rods, planted fingerprints, all the witnesses identifying Oswald as the killer of Tippit being wrong, faked autopsy’s and x-rays. Theories and suspicions and wish thinking can’t beat evidence. Oswald would have been found guilty every time. Escaped justice when the barking mad Ruby shot him.

Impossible to disagree!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Impossible to disagree!

Hi Doc,

The problem is that they have on the one hand this wide ranging conspiracy (it would have had to have been wide-ranging to achieve what it allegedly did) with huge resources but on the other hand these conspirators were apparently idiots. They relied on luck, they massively over complicated, they initiated a conspiracy involving more people than died on The Somme and they supposedly placed a gunman on just about the worst spot imaginable. Who were these halfwits? They couldn’t have done worse if they’d given the Grassy Knoll killer a spear.

ps When I say ‘Grassy Knoll Killer’ I actually mean ‘totally non-existent person’ of course.

[cobalt]

Oswald claimed he was in the lunch room with Harold Norman and James Jarman when JFK was killed. That's his alibi.

No he didn't. He was reported as saying he saw them walking through the Domino Room close to the time of the assassination which the two men confirmed in regards to time.

Oswald never mentioned Danny Arce or Jack Dougherty being in the lunch room.

If you ever feel the need for a wild goose chase then read over Dougherty''s account of his movements in the TSBD on 22 November 1963. The kindest interpretation, which was suggested by his supervisors, was that Dougherty was intellectually impaired. His concept of time is not chronological.

So Oswald lied about having an alibi.

No he didn't. Besides, he doesn't need an alibi: no innocent man does. It's your duty to do what Jesse Curry believed no one had been able to do- put Oswald on the 6th floor at 12.30 with a rifle in his hand.