Schwartz v. Lawende

[John G]

No problem, John, I like to give credit where credit is due.



Ah, John you`re applying your sensibilities to Stride.
How do you know Stride wasn`t "desperate" ? She`d just split up with her man (which in those days was serious stuff for a woman), she was living in a doss on F&D St, and no money was found on her person ..

Also, these girls did go with men they knew were violent, they had no choice (unless they could bag a late night cleaning job at a club). Take the situation with Francis Coles, Ellen Callana and Cheesecutter man .

But stuff like this, and much more, will all be covered in the book I am currently working on, tentatively titled, "Jack the Ripper - The Dog`s Bollocks".




Her feet were facing the wall, John.

Hello Ion,

According to Morris Eagle her feet were facing the gate! Can you please cite a reference to the contrary?

[Abby Normal]

Hello Ion,

According to Morris Eagle her feet were facing the gate! Can you please cite a reference to the contrary?

I think hes just saying that her feet where toward the gate but her toes were facing the wall-as she was on her side.

[Jon Guy]

Hello Ion,

According to Morris Eagle her feet were facing the gate! Can you please cite a reference to the contrary?

Hi Iohn

The deceased was lying on her left side obliquely across the passage, her face looking towards the right wall. Her legs were drawn up, her feet close against the wall of the right side of the passage
Dr Blackwell
Daily Tel 2nd Oct 88

or in the Birmingham Daily Post 2nd Oct, Blackwell said: "her feet were against the wall on the right side of the yard passage."

Morris Eagle said her feet were towards the gate,which Mr N correctly notes means her feet were towards the gate, as opposed to her head.

[Abby Normal]

Hi All
this talk about her scarf got me thinking.

if she had her scarf pulled tight, presumably by her attacker, either by him grabbing/pulling her by it and or deliberately trying to choke her with it, why didn't she drop the cashoo then? surely her inclination would be to drop them as her hands would instinctively go to the scarf to loosen it? or stop him from pulling on it?

[Jeff Leahy]

Wouldn't the pulling of the scarf be painful? The reflex being to claps the cachous rather than let go? Jef

[Abby Normal]

Wouldn't the pulling of the scarf be painful? The reflex being to claps the cachous rather than let go? Jef

I see. but not when shes being thrown to the ground?

anyone but BS man as her killer, I suppose.

[Michael W Richards]

I was under the impression the scarf was cut along its top edge-meaning that if it was pulled tight and then cut(with her throat) then it was tight around her neck below the cut, possibly restricting the blood flow.

From Blackwell "In the neck there was a long incision which exactly corresponded with the lower border of the scarf. The border was slightly frayed, as if by a sharp knife."

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Mike

Her " good evening wear" was what she did the cleaning in earlier. All she did was put on a bonnet and cloak before she went out.

Nope, she went out for a pint around 5 with the landlady, then came back and changed for her evening out.

Yes, she put a bonnet and cloak on ..and the striped scarf

Ill find you the refererence for the change of attire. Since she was charring and wearing clothing, including an apron, that she wore for work I would think that should have been sufficiently self explainatpry that "good evening wear" doesnt fit that profile.

But we do beat the little details down in favour of addressing the real issues, dont we?

[Michael W Richards]

Hi All
this talk about her scarf got me thinking.

if she had her scarf pulled tight, presumably by her attacker, either by him grabbing/pulling her by it and or deliberately trying to choke her with it, why didn't she drop the cashoo then? surely her inclination would be to drop them as her hands would instinctively go to the scarf to loosen it? or stop him from pulling on it?

An attack that may have lasted 2 seconds? Clenched cashous seems reasonable with that time frame,

[Michael W Richards]

Someone asked, based on the Schwartz tale, why would she go into a dark passageway with someone who caused her to fall in the street,and then why would she turn her back to him? Simple. She wouldnt have. She was street wise.

[Abby Normal]

An attack that may have lasted 2 seconds? Clenched cashous seems reasonable with that time frame,

Again-Anything but BS man.

[Jon Guy]

But we do beat the little details down in favour of addressing the real issues, dont we?

Well, personally, I`d rather discuss the details than all the endless, circular speculation (yes I can be guilty of this too).

But, for my own education, I would like to see any details about what Stride wore to do the cleaning in.

[John G]

Hi John
Yeah perhaps i should have been more specific, in that Tailford and Lockwood both drowned. Figg was straggled, Rees was to badly decomposed to be certain although there was indication of broken bones that might have indicated strangulation.

But in Tailfords and Lockwoods case there was no direct signs of bruising but they were almost certainly unconscious when they entered the water as both death certificates state drowning as cause of death.



Yes the later bodies were stored in an electrical substation (I'm hoping to film there in the next few weeks). It seems apparent that they were stored for post mortem sex, the victims increasing turning up with less teeth, almost all were missing from O'Hara.

Its my speculated opinion that the motive for 3 serial murders, those of Jack the Ripper, Jack the Stripper and the Yorkshire Ripper were all sexually motivated by masturbation.



Yes. Du Rose speculated that this may have been caused by an object (Suggested as a penis) being inserted into the throat.... Personally i think this unlikely



She had also received a powerful blow to the heart. Marks on her knees suggest she was kneeling down when attacked from behind (Possibly in the back of a van expecting anal sex?)



Agreed.



As I said, Stride was described as appearing pale. This would be consistent with the blood supply being cut, which would cause her to faint. If her scarf was pulled tight it might act as a ligature.

Her cause of death however was the cut to the throat

Yours Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, wasn't it believed that the latter bodies were stored in a transformer shed, belonging to the Napier Factory on the Heron Trading Estate? I believe O'Hara's body was dumped just 150 yards from the shed.

Is the transformer shed still there? Does the Heron Estate still exist?

I must admit, I've been fascinated by the Jack the Stripper murders since reading David Seabrook's book some time ago. Wasn't he given access to unreleased police files by mistake?

You say you're hoping to film at the substation: are you considering making a documentary? I think the Hammersmith Nude Murders are certainly deserving of a documentary particularly, as a series of crimes almost as fascinating as the Whitechapel murders, they have largely been neglected, with few books on the subject.

[John G]

I see. but not when shes being thrown to the ground?

anyone but BS man as her killer, I suppose.

Hi Abby,

I would certainly have a problem with any scenario that postulates Stride holding on to the cachous whilst being thrown to the ground! Whereas eased to the ground from behind...

[Jeff Leahy]

I see. but not when shes being thrown to the ground?

anyone but BS man as her killer, I suppose.

Hi Abby

What if she is unconscious before she hits the ground? Does she let go or does the reflex tighten?

Having never actually strangled someone I just don't know the answer

Yours Jeff