Schwartz v. Lawende

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

Hi John
Yeah perhaps i should have been more specific, in that Tailford and Lockwood both drowned. Figg was straggled, Rees was to badly decomposed to be certain although there was indication of broken bones that might have indicated strangulation.

But in Tailfords and Lockwoods case there was no direct signs of bruising but they were almost certainly unconscious when they entered the water as both death certificates state drowning as cause of death.

But with the Hanmersmith Nude Murders there was clearly evidence of asphyxiation. For instance, Barthelemy had eight abrasions on her throat, and the six small abrasions in the right side were probably caused by the victims fingernails as she was attempting to remove the means of strangulation. Moreover, there was also swelling on the left cheekbone and bridge of the nose, indicating that she'd been struck with a fist.

Yes the later bodies were stored in an electrical substation (I'm hoping to film there in the next few weeks). It seems apparent that they were stored for post mortem sex, the victims increasing turning up with less teeth, almost all were missing from O'Hara.

Its my speculated opinion that the motive for 3 serial murders, those of Jack the Ripper, Jack the Stripper and the Yorkshire Ripper were all sexually motivated by masturbation.

In Brown's case there were a series of pigmented marks, believed to be small haemorrhage and abrasions, indicative of an asphyxial death.

Yes. Du Rose speculated that this may have been caused by an object (Suggested as a penis) being inserted into the throat.... Personally i think this unlikely

O'Hara had signs of asphyxsia on the mucus membranes of the face and eyes, and on the lungs, as well as two abrasions on the left side of the neck, which could have been caused by pressure.

She had also received a powerful blow to the heart. Marks on her knees suggest she was kneeling down when attacked from behind (Possibly in the back of a van expecting anal sex?)

Fleming had abrasions on and below the chin, possibly left by the victims fingernails as she attempted to remove the means of pressure, as well as a series of linear abrasions along the front and side of the neck, possibly caused by a ligature.

Agreed.

However, in Stride's case there are no such indications.

As I said, Stride was described as appearing pale. This would be consistent with the blood supply being cut, which would cause her to faint. If her scarf was pulled tight it might act as a ligature.

Her cause of death however was the cut to the throat

Yours Jeff

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Michael,

Firstly, there's no proof that any of the victims were strangled or suffocated. Secondly, in your scenario the killer presumably grabs hold of the scarf instinctively as Stride turns around, possibly intending to leave the yard. Obviously these factors weren't present in Annie's and Polly's murders, so I don't see why this would indicate a different killer.

I would also note that arterial spray is uncommon because, as pointed out by Dr Biggs, arteries, even large ones, usually go into acute spasm when cut, providing "very effective control of bleeding (at least initially.)" Marriott, 2015).

Hi John,

The fact that the severe throat cuts deny the opportunity to properly assess how the first 2 victis were subdued, both had physical manifestations that could have been created by choking. The fact that there needs to be some explanation for how he got them on the ground on their backs without any appreciable sounds needs allows for some speculative observations in that regard.

As for this Dr Biggs you often quote, I have heard opions from many medically trained people on the issue of arterial spray and its basically an inevitabilty unless something has caused restricted flow. In the case I suggest, the tight scarf did that.

[Jon Guy]

Thank you for crediting me with the "theory", however,

No problem, John, I like to give credit where credit is due.

I cannot see Stride entering the pitch black darkness of Dutfield's Yard with a man who had just assaulted her, particularly taking into account the Ripper scare and the fact that she wasn't desperate, unlike Polly and Annie.?

Ah, John you`re applying your sensibilities to Stride.
How do you know Stride wasn`t "desperate" ? She`d just split up with her man (which in those days was serious stuff for a woman), she was living in a doss on F&D St, and no money was found on her person ..

Also, these girls did go with men they knew were violent, they had no choice (unless they could bag a late night cleaning job at a club). Take the situation with Francis Coles, Ellen Callana and Cheesecutter man .

But stuff like this, and much more, will all be covered in the book I am currently working on, tentatively titled, "Jack the Ripper - The Dog`s Bollocks".

However, if she was pulled backwards whilst facing the wall, as Steve and Wickerman suggest, does this adequately explain the final body position? In this scenario, wouldn't it be more likely that her feet would be left facing the wall, rather than than the gate?

Her feet were facing the wall, John.

[Michael W Richards]

Ah, John you`re applying your sensibilities to Stride.
How do you know Stride wasn`t "desperate" ? She`d just split up with her man (which in those days was serious stuff for a woman), she was living in a doss on F&D St, and no money was found on her person ..

Also, these girls did go with men they knew were violent, they had no choice (unless they could bag a late night cleaning job at a club). Take the situation with Francis Coles, Ellen Callana and Cheesecutter man .

Ah but John, you are neglecting to account for Liz Strides situation on the day of her death, or the day prior to be correct. She was getting regular work "among the Jews", she had a paying job the last afternoon of her life, and she had accessories with her when found that are uncharacteristic of a woman who had no access to money. How she is attired...in her "good evening wear" according to a lodgemate, she requested a lint brush to tidy her skirt, she has a flower on her breast and cashous on her person....all this adds up to a woman who didnt intend to lure off-work dockers smelling of fish, or poor immigrant socialists who had in fact for the most part cleared out before she even shows up at Berner. I say for the most part because about 70% of the people gathered for the meeting had left an hour earlier. No-one but the young couple were on the street.

Her appearance tells us that she felt it important to look presentable...which indicates a social meeting or one that was related to her daily char work.

The misused asssumption that Stride was prostituting is simply based on predjudicial thinking, not the physical and circumstantial facts. Just like the assumption that a serial mutilator killed her because he kills again later. Baseless, within the known evidence.

We can say with some assurance that Polly and Annuie were soliciting, they as much as admitted so to confidants, but they are the ONLY 2 canonicals where such evidence is present.

[Jeff Leahy]

Ah but John, you are neglecting to account for Liz Strides situation on the day of her death, or the day prior to be correct. She was getting regular work "among the Jews", she had a paying job the last afternoon of her life, and she had accessories with her when found that are uncharacteristic of a woman who had no access to money. How she is attired...in her "good evening wear" according to a lodgemate, she requested a lint brush to tidy her skirt, she has a flower on her breast and cashous on her person....all this adds up to a woman who didnt intend to lure off-work dockers smelling of fish, or poor immigrant socialists who had in fact for the most part cleared out before she even shows up at Berner. I say for the most part because about 70% of the people gathered for the meeting had left an hour earlier. No-one but the young couple were on the street.

Her appearance tells us that she felt it important to look presentable...which indicates a social meeting or one that was related to her daily char work.

The misused asssumption that Stride was prostituting is simply based on predjudicial thinking, not the physical and circumstantial facts. Just like the assumption that a serial mutilator killed her because he kills again later. Baseless, within the known evidence.

We can say with some assurance that Polly and Annuie were soliciting, they as much as admitted so to confidants, but they are the ONLY 2 canonicals where such evidence is present.

Or a Jew who owned an expensive Silver watch?

[Joshua Rogan]

As for this Dr Biggs you often quote, I have heard opions from many medically trained people on the issue of arterial spray and its basically an inevitabilty unless something has caused restricted flow. In the case I suggest, the tight scarf did that.

But wasn't the scarf above the cut? In which case it would only have stopped bleeding from veins, not arteries.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Michael

Ah but John, you are neglecting to account for Liz Strides situation on the day of her death, or the day prior to be correct. She was getting regular work "among the Jews", she had a paying job the last afternoon of her life, and she had accessories with her when found that are uncharacteristic of a woman who had no access to money..

Helping Mrs Mills cleaning up after the white washer`s was a one off, and she couldn`t rely on that money again.

Accessories ? The flower and cachous are the sort of thing someone would buy for Stride, and they aren`t expensive.

How she is attired...in her "good evening wear" according to a lodgemate,
..

Her " good evening wear" was what she did the cleaning in earlier. All she did was put on a bonnet and cloak before she went out.

she requested a lint brush to tidy her skirt, she has a flower on her breast and cashous on her person....all this adds up to a woman who didnt intend to lure off-work dockers smelling of fish, .

Well, why can`t the woman make an effort to look her best?
Anyway, she was competing with much younger girls for the money of the dock worker.

or poor immigrant socialists who had in fact for the most part cleared out before she even shows up at Berner. .

Yes, but didn`t some members of the club take their young wives home and then return for last orders with the lads.

The misused asssumption that Stride was prostituting is simply based on predjudicial thinking, not the physical and circumstantial facts. Just like the assumption that a serial mutilator killed her because he kills again later. Baseless, within the known evidence.

We can say with some assurance that Polly and Annuie were soliciting, they as much as admitted so to confidants, but they are the ONLY 2 canonicals where such evidence is present.

Sorry, Michael, but you saying that Polly and Annie admitted to soliciting is predjudicial thinking. They never said that, but it`s a reasonable assumption based on their circumstances.

[Michael W Richards]

But wasn't the scarf above the cut? In which case it would only have stopped bleeding from veins, not arteries.

The cut line matched the line of the scarf, and it was nicked as a result Josh.

[Michael W Richards]

Hey Jon,

Helping Mrs Mills cleaning up after the white washer`s was a one off, and she couldn`t rely on that money again.

It appears she didnt have to with her claim of regular work Jon.

Accessories ? The flower and cachous are the sort of thing someone would buy for Stride, and they aren`t expensive.

I submit that where her 6d went.

Her " good evening wear" was what she did the cleaning in earlier. All she did was put on a bonnet and cloak before she went out.

Nope, she went out for a pint around 5 with the landlady, then came back and changed for her evening out.

Well, why can`t the woman make an effort to look her best?
Anyway, she was competing with much younger girls for the money of the dock worker.

If someone has to resort to selling herself to pay for bed then she would hardly have the extra money to accessorize. You forget that we have within Liz Strides known history a demonstrated prererence for decent work over solicitation....see Goteborg.

Yes, but didn`t some members of the club take their young wives home and then return for last orders with the lads.

1, that we know of.

Sorry, Michael, but you saying that Polly and Annie admitted to soliciting is predjudicial thinking. They never said that, but it`s a reasonable assumption based on their circumstances.

Both admitted needing money for their bed, Polly stated she had earned and spent her bed doss a few times and needed to earn more for the bed. Its not conjecture when it comes directly from the source Jon.

[Abby Normal]

The cut line matched the line of the scarf, and it was nicked as a result Josh.

I was under the impression the scarf was cut along its top edge-meaning that if it was pulled tight and then cut(with her throat) then it was tight around her neck below the cut, possibly restricting the blood flow.

[Joshua Rogan]

Yes, as I understand it, the cut followed (and nicked) the lower edge of the scarf, so any arterial flow wouldn't have been restricted by it, however tight it was. The scarf would have needed to be between the heart and the cut to act as a tourniquet.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hmm, will have to check...

[Jon Guy]

Hi Mike

Her " good evening wear" was what she did the cleaning in earlier. All she did was put on a bonnet and cloak before she went out.

Nope, she went out for a pint around 5 with the landlady, then came back and changed for her evening out.

Yes, she put a bonnet and cloak on ..and the striped scarf

[Joshua Rogan]

I was under the impression the scarf was cut along its top edge-meaning that if it was pulled tight and then cut(with her throat) then it was tight around her neck below the cut, possibly restricting the blood flow.

Dr Blackwell states at the inquest;

"In the neck there was a long incision which exactly corresponded with the lower border of the scarf. "

[Abby Normal]

Dr Blackwell states at the inquest;

"In the neck there was a long incision which exactly corresponded with the lower border of the scarf. "

thanks Josh! I was mistaken.