Limerick, the Key?

[lynn cates]

agree

Hello Ruby.

"I think that if we could suddenly, magically, see 'the truth' about MJK, we'd all go " Of course ! It's obvious, now !""

Completely agree.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

sniffing about

Hello Caroline.

"Other women in MJK's circumstances seemed to embroider the truth as a matter of course, and witnesses enjoying the brief limelight may have claimed to be better acquainted with a victim than they actually were."

Quite true. And yet we can cobble together good bits of their life stories. But with MJK, not even a sniff.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

It may of course be that, name aside, she's telling us the truth about almost everything following her arrival in London...most of the latter stuff seems possible if not totally verifiable...(Mrs Carty, Fleming etc - there are even some candidates for Mrs Buki)...

I begin to wonder whether Lynn's not got the right idea (ie an early form of witness protection with an ID switch)...

All the best

Dave

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

I don't think anyone here has said that MJK must have been lying with every breath about who she was and her background. At the same time, how likely is it, considering the complete lack of supporting evidence, that everything she had allegedly told anyone about herself was fact?

Good post, Caz.

I have never thought that she was telling the truth about everything...but I feel sure that the truth is mixed in there.

One thing that I find very frustrating is that I think that if we could suddenly, magically, see 'the truth' about MJK, we'd all go " Of course ! It's obvious, now !".

I think that it's a case of not seeing the wood for the trees.

[caz]

I don't think anyone here has said that MJK must have been lying with every breath about who she was and her background. At the same time, how likely is it, considering the complete lack of supporting evidence, that everything she had allegedly told anyone about herself was fact?

Other women in MJK's circumstances seemed to embroider the truth as a matter of course, and witnesses enjoying the brief limelight may have claimed to be better acquainted with a victim than they actually were. We know the papers printed all manner of baseless details too.

Any 'stories' Mary had told Barnett on their first meeting were likely to go on being told, regardless of how close they later became, and if he doubted the truth of any of them he didn't let it show. It seems to me that he just told it like she had told him, and would be quite bemused to see some of today's speculation.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

I spy.

Hello Debs. Of course, there were many more British female spies and the right age. Still looking for Miss Worth and Miss Kennedy.

And Alice is not quite off the table--yet.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

all

Hello Ruby. If I recall properly, Debs checked all the Scots Guards.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. I MUCH prefer the latter.

If we have some credible leads for Barnett and whom he was, and given he lived in the neighbourhood respectably for some time thereafter, then the second option is even more likely.

Cheers.
LC

Thanks, Lynn. Yes, I agree with you and Colin, that is the much more sensible option if one were to be thinking in those terms. That is why the possibility of MJK really being Alice Carroll always seemed far fetched to me.

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

Hello Ruby.

"Interesting. I haven't read back much...but was that Northern Ireland or Limerick?"

It was the Scots Guards. No luck.

Cheers.
LC

Wasn't that looking for 'Jontos', Wales, Scotland/Kelly ? What about Ulster men ?

[Rubyretro]

We tend (all of us perhaps) to think that, because we can't find MJK in the historical archive, she must have told lies about her past. That she may have been lying is a worthy consideration. That she must have been lying is an unfair assumption, in my view.

Regards, Bridewell.[/QUOTE]

Utterly agree with that, Bridewell

[lynn cates]

story

Hello Colin. I agree with just about everything you say. And "overlooking" would be even more convincing if there were not so many details that were so precise in "the standard story" and which have come up empty--even after the exhaustive research of people of the calibre of Debs and Chris and Chris.

But, back to work.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Collusion

Hi Lynn. Can I ask? Do you think Barnett would have been part of this collusion or an innocent party who just relayed what had been told to him by MJK?

If there was collusion (conspiracy?) it would be prudent to keep the number of people 'in the know' to an absolute minimum. Barnett would be more convincing if he actually believed what he was told, I would have thought.

We tend (all of us perhaps) to think that, because we can't find MJK in the historical archive, she must have told lies about her past. That she may have been lying is a worthy consideration. That she must have been lying is an unfair assumption, in my view.

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

Scots Guards

Hello Ruby.

"Interesting. I haven't read back much...but was that Northern Ireland or Limerick?"

It was the Scots Guards. No luck.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

options

Hello Debs. I MUCH prefer the latter.

If we have some credible leads for Barnett and whom he was, and given he lived in the neighbourhood respectably for some time thereafter, then the second option is even more likely.

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE=lynn cates;220920]Hello Ruby.

"I think that the idea that they could write to her, but she couldn't write to them ( because they didn't have a fixed address) is a good one."

No problem. But would it keep them from here funeral?

I could imagine that time was short, and communication (without 'phones) difficult between an itinerate family spread out (if that was what they were ???).

That nobody in the Family would want to come forward alone and find themselves a) liable for any cost for the funeral, and especially if they thought that by keeping quiet then other people would pay for it b) they were 'shy' and didn't want press attention c) they had had a fractious relationship with her when she was alive and d) they didn't want the word 'prostitute' associated with themselves e) they had professional activities planned that they didn't want to interrupt f) they were country people that hated the scariness of being in London g) some of them were there but kept very very quiet as to who they were..

...honestly Lynn, there are tons of reasons why the Family may not have been officially at her funeral...I could go on for ages..

"Those friends actually had Scottish roots (I will have to find out more). There might be something that explains the 'Scots Guards'. A 'tradition' somewhere?

Perhaps. But Debs and Colin have already had a go there.

Interesting. I haven't read back much...but was that Northern Ireland or Limerick ?

"The name 'Mary' however points to Catholics (but wouldn't that narrow down things in Ulster ?)"

Possibly

.

I should think, quite a lot...

"Or she didn't have her Father's name."

Well, Joseph Barnett at inquest said his name was "John Kelly."

Care to try the obvious?

Obviously, the obvious is the first thing to obviously try...then it has to be the next obvious thing.

She might have used her mother's name. Her Grandfather's name. I just can't believe that she pulled the info that has come down to us out of a hat. The key is almost certainly there somewhere..