Limerick, the Key?

[Bridewell]

We've been on the wrong track....

we certainly have:

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[Bridewell]

I think if the poor woman was walking around with her front teeth over her bottom lip, she had more serious problems than speech impediments.

Mike
_________

Be that as it may, the following is a post from another thread (last month) by Wickerman:

One of the press interviews mentioned Mary Kelly had either, an overbite or prominent teeth (buckteeth?).

Regards, Jon S.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

Or even

http://www.forvo.com/word/m%C3%A1ire/#ga



Dave

[The Good Michael]

Then try shouting "Oh Murder!"

"Oh my dear.."!

"Oh Fa'der"? (Oh Father)

"Over'dere"? (Over there)

We've been on the wrong track....

I think if the poor woman was walking around with her front teeth over her bottom lip, she had more serious problems than speech impediments.

Mike

[Wickerman]

Just thinking back to the reference, on another thread, to MJK having possibly had some kind of speech impediment - also to her having prominent front teeth. Try sticking your front teeth over your bottom lip and saying "Kelly" -

Then try shouting "Oh Murder!"

"Oh my dear.."!

"Oh Fa'der"? (Oh Father)

"Over'dere"? (Over there)

We've been on the wrong track....

[The Good Michael]

"Marie Jeannette" could also be "Maree Ginette" of course, so a Mary G Kelly born in Limerick should not be discounted, in my view.

Obviously you're thinking of the famous Victorian prostitute pop group, Marie and the Ginettes? Phil Spector wrote that hit song for them, Be My Punter, Baby.

Mike

[Rubyretro]

Hmn. I hate to agree with Mike , but...

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael. And which part would be acted by Michael Palin?

I'm playing Barnett. I see you as Badham, maybe Monty as Abberline, and Tom as Hutchinson. Kelly would be Debs. I think Palin would be just a cameo as a cat's meat seller with a blotchy face.

Mike

[lynn cates]

So Bwian, you ah a woman?

Hello Michael. And which part would be acted by Michael Palin?

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Just thinking back to the reference, on another thread, to MJK having possibly had some kind of speech impediment - also to her having prominent front teeth. Try sticking your front teeth over your bottom lip and saying "Kelly" - the result is Kerry or Carey. Perhaps she didn't lie about her name, but was presumed to be unable to pronounce it? It would be ironic if her name was Kerry or Carey and everyone presumed she had meant to say Kelly!

I am now tempted to write a sketch with Barnett having echolalia, Kelly speaking like Lord Raglan, Hutchinson having a harelip, Abberline deaf in one ear, and Sergeant Badham only understanding someone speaking in a high register. I'm not joking either.

Mike

[Bridewell]

Just thinking back to the reference, on another thread, to MJK having possibly had some kind of speech impediment - also to her having prominent front teeth. Try sticking your front teeth over your bottom lip and saying "Kelly" - the result is Kerry or Carey. Perhaps she didn't lie about her name, but was presumed to be unable to pronounce it? It would be ironic if her name was Kerry or Carey and everyone presumed she had meant to say Kelly!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Bridewell]

"Marie Jeannette" could also be "Maree Ginette" of course, so a Mary G Kelly born in Limerick should not be discounted, in my view.

What a pity the police didn't ask Barnett on what date she celebrated her birthday!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Wickerman]

I was born in South Carolina and raised in Tennessee. My parents are both northerners, and I went to a small private school with mostly yankee teachers. I have no southern accent unless I'm exhausted or completely enraged. Most people think I'm from the midwest. It's not so much about where you are born as much as what you are surrounded by.

Quite so.
If I recall correctly there's one account of Kelly moving to Dublin before leaving Ireland? Regardless, the claim to be from Limerick (city or county?) may have no real benefit to researchers.
It does not mean she lived there, perhaps only born there. Neither does it mean she had an accent from that region, as you rightly point out, we simply do not know where she spent her formative years.

Apparently Millers Court was inhabited by several Irish and there is nothing surviving to indicate MJK was anything other than accepted by all she associated with as being what she claimed to be, Irish.
A few who met her thought she sounded Welsh, but none of those said that MJK claimed to be Welsh. This was probably their own erroneous assumptions. What we may take from this is that MJK talked about being in Wales for some time.

I suppose if neither her father nor her brother show up where they are supposed to, then the information Barnett had was false. There seems little reason to lie, and likely she didn't have a past of her own worth fleeing.

Little reason to lie is the slender thread we have to hold onto, these are the details which need to be separated from potential embellishments. Also, we need to allow for Barnett, McCarthy and all her known associates making mistakes in their recollections of what they were told.

Regards, Jon S.

[Errata]

The reality is, my motherinlaw returned to the family home in Co. Clare (IRE) to give birth to my wife. Then returned to Manchester. As a result the missus claims to be Irish but with a Lancastrian accent.

Thats a dash of reality...

Regards, Jon S.

I was born in South Carolina and raised in Tennessee. My parents are both northerners, and I went to a small private school with mostly yankee teachers. I have no southern accent unless I'm exhausted or completely enraged. Most people think I'm from the midwest. It's not so much about where you are born as much as what you are surrounded by. If she claimed to be from Limerick with no Irish person calling her out on it, likely she spent about ten years there. The accent is mostly influenced by what you hear from the age of 4 up, and is pretty much locked (unless you are a natural mimic) by about 15. She may not have been born there, and she may not have married there, but she spent her formative years there. Birth records might not help, but I'd bet her confirmation is in a church registry somewhere in that area.

I'm not sure how popular the name was back then, but you might check "Kelly" as a first name. I suppose if neither her father nor her brother show up where they are supposed to, then the information Barnett had was false. There seems little reason to lie, and likely she didn't have a past of her own worth fleeing. She was young, petty criminal records didn't travel well, and while she might change her name to flee an ex or a pimp or whatever, she wouldn't need to change her life story for that. That would seem to indicate a mafia level criminal past. Of course if her family was packed with terrorists, she might lie about growing up in Wales. And if I recall, there is a city near Limerick that was a Fenian hive... I'll have to look it up again. I mean, it's probably a crap idea, but maybe worth a look.

[Robert]

Mike, I am not a bread connoisseur, so all I can say is that as far as I know, the main thing about bloomers is the shape and appearance. If anything, the bread is slow rising :

http://www.food.com/recipe/bloomer-bread-423627