Limerick, the Key?

[Paddy]

Interesting that it says relatives and friends coming from Wales.
Pat...

[DJA]

Wilton was Sexton at St. Leonards and paid for Kelly's funeral.

[Paddy]

Marys family? The Times, Wed 14th Nov 1888

Not exactly the right thread but couldnt find another to post this article on.
Can anybody tell me how reliable the Times was back then?
Pat......

[SuspectZero]

To start to find Mary, it would be useful to eliminate Limerick MKS born in the 1860s. If it was possible to trace various Marys, one might emerge who could be a contender.
For example I have taken five Marys born in 1864, one in 1863 and one in 65 born in LIMERICK COUNTY who might need further investigation. A small number of Marys could be investigated by different people born in different years for example.
Many Irish records were lost in 1916 but there are Civil Registration records of births deaths and marriages and Church records and Census records up to 1851. These are available on Ancestry and other sites.
The Marys are
MK born 1863 Askeaton,parents Michael Kelly and Mary O'Shaunessy
MK born 1864 Kilfinnane, parents Thomas Kelly Honora Magrath
At least four siblings, Catherine, Patrick, Ellen and Bridget.
MK born 1864 Charleville, parents Michael Kelly and Bridget Cathy
MK born 1864 St Michael's, parents Patrick and Mary Connor
MK born 1864 Limerick, parents Michael Kelly and Honora Flaherty
MK born 1864 Castletown, parents John Kelly and Anne McCarthy.
That Castletown one has always been my favourite. Two brothers,John born 1866, Peter born 1868 and a sister whom Ive lost!
Mary Kate Kelly born 1865 St Michaels, parents John Kelly and Bridget Flynn.
There are at least four marriages of Mary Kellys in Limerick in 1885/6 which would help elimination.
I have only been looking at familysearch.org which is free and useful but for more detail one needs to go on the paid sites. I have a friend on ANCESTRY who helps me out so I will explore that avenue.
Its a long hard road.
Happy New Year, Miss Marple

I read somewhere that she moved to Swansea for a short while before heading to Cardiff. Any way to track her there?

[miss marple]

To start to find Mary, it would be useful to eliminate Limerick MKS born in the 1860s. If it was possible to trace various Marys, one might emerge who could be a contender.
For example I have taken five Marys born in 1864, one in 1863 and one in 65 born in LIMERICK COUNTY who might need further investigation. A small number of Marys could be investigated by different people born in different years for example.
Many Irish records were lost in 1916 but there are Civil Registration records of births deaths and marriages and Church records and Census records up to 1851. These are available on Ancestry and other sites.
The Marys are
MK born 1863 Askeaton,parents Michael Kelly and Mary O'Shaunessy
MK born 1864 Kilfinnane, parents Thomas Kelly Honora Magrath
At least four siblings, Catherine, Patrick, Ellen and Bridget.
MK born 1864 Charleville, parents Michael Kelly and Bridget Cathy
MK born 1864 St Michael's, parents Patrick and Mary Connor
MK born 1864 Limerick, parents Michael Kelly and Honora Flaherty
MK born 1864 Castletown, parents John Kelly and Anne McCarthy.
That Castletown one has always been my favourite. Two brothers,John born 1866, Peter born 1868 and a sister whom Ive lost!
Mary Kate Kelly born 1865 St Michaels, parents John Kelly and Bridget Flynn.
There are at least four marriages of Mary Kellys in Limerick in 1885/6 which would help elimination.
I have only been looking at familysearch.org which is free and useful but for more detail one needs to go on the paid sites. I have a friend on ANCESTRY who helps me out so I will explore that avenue.
Its a long hard road.
Happy New Year, Miss Marple

[Wickerman]

Removed

[miss marple]

Had a look, cant find a marriage record for Patrick O Kelly or Kelly \and a Julia between 1888 /1900 in London,
but in 1891 census found a Julia Kelly 27 married, visitor to 33 Graham Rd Hackney.
Up to my ears in Kellys at the mo, just going through London Johns Marys and Margarets is doing my head in, You rarely get two consistent censuses.

Miss Marple

[Bridewell]

Not Yet Found

Duh, I forgot one crucial thing... he deserted in 87 and rejoined in 91!

Michael Kelly b 1868 in Tralee Tralee, Creiry [Kerry]
attested at London 8 July 1887 aged 19 years 10 months
occupation groom
deserted 1887 rejoined 1891 discharged 1893
educated at Christian Brothers School
next of kin Susan [no surname] mother 55 High St Tralee Kerry

What about Patrick O'?

Patrick O'Kelly b 1868 Cork, Cork
attested 2 Sept. 1887 aged 19 years 4 months at London
occupation labourer
discharged in 1899 and rejoined colours 1900 to 1903
next of kin Timothy Kelly father of Cork
wife [of Patrick] Julia, 57 Heath Rd Lambeth

I've done a quick late night check on both of these without getting any definite matches. I'll have another go at a more civilised hour.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

Duh, I forgot one crucial thing... he deserted in 87 and rejoined in 91!

Michael Kelly b 1868 in Tralee Tralee, Creiry [Kerry]
attested at London 8 July 1887 aged 19 years 10 months
occupation groom
deserted 1887 rejoined 1891 discharged 1893
educated at Christian Brothers School
next of kin Susan [no surname] mother 55 High St Tralee Kerry

What about Patrick O'?

Patrick O'Kelly b 1868 Cork, Cork
attested 2 Sept. 1887 aged 19 years 4 months at London
occupation labourer
discharged in 1899 and rejoined colours 1900 to 1903
next of kin Timothy Kelly father of Cork
wife [of Patrick] Julia, 57 Heath Rd Lambeth

[Bridewell]

A Rival?!

Well f*** me.
Really?
How have I not known this? Surely this is the guy we need to 'speak' with.
I will re-engage my Ancestry subscription (currently languishing in relax mode) to research the hell out of this guy!
Debra A, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and your research... I await your command!

Hi Debs,

It would seem there are now two of us waiting to do your bidding. I guess we just need date & place of birth as recorded in the SG records and we can get cracking. The good doctor and I can perhaps split the workload between us, if he (or she) is agreeable.

Regards, Colin.

[DrHopper]

There was a Michael Kelly in the 2Bt Scots Guards, serving in 1888, who I've mentioned a couple of times. He was born in Ireland and his next of kin is given as his mother, still living back in Ireland (letters from Ireland?). No one batted an eyelid though or showed the slightest interest in him...what are we looking for if not the exact details according to MJK? That's the big question?

Well f*** me.
Really?
How have I not known this? Surely this is the guy we need to 'speak' with.
I will re-engage my Ancestry subscription (currently languishing in relax mode) to research the hell out of this guy!
Debra A, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and your research... I await your command!

[Bridewell]

Eyelid Batting

There was a Michael Kelly in the 2Bt Scots Guards, serving in 1888, who I've mentioned a couple of times. He was born in Ireland and his next of kin is given as his mother, still living back in Ireland (letters from Ireland?). No one batted an eyelid though or showed the slightest interest in him...what are we looking for if not the exact details according to MJK? That's the big question?

Hi Debs,

I'm interested - and my Ancestry subscription is still live. Are you able to give a bit more detail? If so I'll see what I can find over the next few days. Michael Kelly could easily be Michael Henry Kelly, or even Henry Michael Kelly. My eyelids are batting, believe me.

Regards, Colin.

[Debra A]

Wasn't that looking for 'Jontos', Wales, Scotland/Kelly ? What about Ulster men ?

It started off as looking for men named Kelly serving in the 2Bt Scots Guards. It then progressed to men of any name born in Limerick and serving in the 2Bt Scots Guards...which produced one man. From there we went on to men of any name born in Wales and serving in the 2Bt Scots Guards (in case 'Henry Johnto' was born after a move to Wales) and interspersed with this were random look up suggestions like men named Henry or with the surname Johns(t)on.
It couldn't go on forever though, people get bored, subs run out etc...

There was a Michael Kelly in the 2Bt Scots Guards, serving in 1888, who I've mentioned a couple of times. He was born in Ireland and his next of kin is given as his mother, still living back in Ireland (letters from Ireland?). No one batted an eyelid though or showed the slightest interest in him...what are we looking for if not the exact details according to MJK? That's the big question?

[Debra A]

It may of course be that, name aside, she's telling us the truth about almost everything following her arrival in London...most of the latter stuff seems possible if not totally verifiable...(Mrs Carty, Fleming etc - there are even some candidates for Mrs Buki)...

That seems likely to me too, Dave. It would be a lucky break to include someone named Morganstone in a fictitious account of your life and lo and behold there's someone in the right area at the right time with the right name! Joseph Fleming would be a less unusual choice as a name for an ex but the details of the one we know about show him in the right area, he's the right age group etc.

[lynn cates]

Sir Ed

Hello Dave. Thanks. If only we could get to Sir Ed's papers. He claimed he burned them--but I'm not so sure.

Cheers.
LC