Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Trevor Marriott]

Hello Dave. Oh, no. Just interesting.

Cheers.
LC

No Dave was right

[Wickerman]

Fair enough, Jon, but where did her father travel from to visit her? He either had a very important reason for making the journey all the way from Wales, or he was living much closer than that. Mary claimed to have moved to London from Wales - perhaps the rest of the family did likewise.

Regards, Bridewell.

The story tells us that he "came from Wales to find her", which implies it was not a casual visit. So as the family was "fairly well off"(?), the reason might have been very important to him. The suggestion that she intenionally avoided him also raises the question, did she know why?

Her friends warned her that he was looking for her.
So how would they know this unless he was asking for her by the name he knew her by, which had to be the same name that her friends knew her by, which also had to be the same name she used to rent the place in Pennington-street.

What name was that one may ask - what else could it have been?

Regards, Jon S.

[Trevor Marriott]

In asking 'why would she have lied?' I was specifically thinking of whether the 'usual reasons' were satisfied by inventing a brother? By making him a soldier? By giving him a specific regiment? By giving him a specific battalion within that regiment? Of course, they could have been - anything could have been - but it is a fairly detailed lie. And Barnet remembered it well enough to have known that the 2nd Battalion had recently been transferred to Ireland. And Barnett said that this brother had visited Kelly. We have, I think, to allow for the possibility that Kelly did have a connection with the 2nd Battalion. Maybe Barnet simply got the brother's name wrong?

Or could it be that everyone else on here is right and you are wrong.

Now that would be a first wouldnt it.

[PaulB]

It could be something as simple as Kelly having once dated a soldier in the Scots Guards. This then become a brother. As Lynn said- a lie is easier to remember if it contains some truth. Why she'd lie about this I do not know. Perhaps it sounded more exotic than having a brother who was a day labourer

It could indeed have been something as simple as that, but we're presupposing Kelly lied and on what evidence is that presumption based? Other bits and pieces of her story seem to have varying degrees of corroboration of sorts.

[lynn cates]

interesting

Hello Dave. Oh, no. Just interesting.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

cover

Hello Mr. Begg. I agree that parts of her story are VERY detailed. And yet, not a single bit is confirmed.

Sounds so very like a cover story. Something to be used over and over.

Maybe I am watching too many "Danger Man" episodes in syndication?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Controversial!

I think you got that spot on and one press man who was fed big helpings was GR Simms.

Hmm...am I mistaken or is this thread about to get heated?

(I'll be glad to be wrong in this one instance!)

Dave

[PaulB]

Hello Mr. Begg. Thanks.

"It's far more likely that he was repeating what Kelly had told him, but one could ask the same question of Kelly - why would she have lied?"

Well, we are taking suggestions as above. What are the usual reasons?

A specific story? Yes, to my puny mind sounds like she has a ready to hand cover story.

Cheers.
LC

In asking 'why would she have lied?' I was specifically thinking of whether the 'usual reasons' were satisfied by inventing a brother? By making him a soldier? By giving him a specific regiment? By giving him a specific battalion within that regiment? Of course, they could have been - anything could have been - but it is a fairly detailed lie. And Barnet remembered it well enough to have known that the 2nd Battalion had recently been transferred to Ireland. And Barnett said that this brother had visited Kelly. We have, I think, to allow for the possibility that Kelly did have a connection with the 2nd Battalion. Maybe Barnet simply got the brother's name wrong?

[Cogidubnus]

Haunted

Bloody hell Trevor...I blink and you're there!

All the best

Dave

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Jon

If I follow Trevor correctly, I believe he's suggesting that a lot of the fairy tales told to reporters eagerly questioning the locals are just that...fairy tales concocted for the sake of gaining attention (plus perhaps a few free drinks)...on which basis he's suggesting we should be cautious in trusting press reports which aren't substantiated elsewhere...

I often disagree with Trevor, but can't fault his logic at all in this instance!

All the best

Dave

I think you got that spot on and one press man who was fed big helpings was GR Simms.

[Trevor Marriott]

It could be something as simple as Kelly having once dated a soldier in the Scots Guards. This then become a brother. As Lynn said- a lie is easier to remember if it contains some truth. Why she'd lie about this I do not know. Perhaps it sounded more exotic than having a brother who was a day labourer

I suspect Prostitutes in 1888 only usually dated people for finacial reward, and usually that date was over almost as soon as it begun

[Cogidubnus]

Believe what?

Hi Jon

If I follow Trevor correctly, I believe he's suggesting that a lot of the fairy tales told to reporters eagerly questioning the locals are just that...fairy tales concocted for the sake of gaining attention (plus perhaps a few free drinks)...on which basis he's suggesting we should be cautious in trusting press reports which aren't substantiated elsewhere...

I often disagree with Trevor, but can't fault his logic at all in this instance!

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Her father, he looked her up in Pennington-street, unless we have to take this as a lie too?
If not, then surely we have some minutae of truth in her name, how else could he look her up?

Regards, Jon S.

Fair enough, Jon, but where did her father travel from to visit her? He either had a very important reason for making the journey all the way from Wales, or he was living much closer than that. Mary claimed to have moved to London from Wales - perhaps the rest of the family did likewise.

Regards, Bridewell.

[jason_c]

I don't. I don't think he did. I was simply answering Simon's suggestion that he could have been.

It's far more likely that he was repeating what Kelly had told him, but one could ask the same question of Kelly - why would she have lied? Or, to rephrase that, it's very specific for a lie, and it made an impression of Barnet who was able to state that the Battalion was in Ireland, it having just been moved there. And he said, 'A brother in the 2nd Battalion Scots Guards came to see her once, but beyond that she saw none of her relations, nor did she correspond with them.' This sounds like he was citing personal knowledge rather than something which had happened prior to him meeting Kelly, though it needn't be, of course.

It could be something as simple as Kelly having once dated a soldier in the Scots Guards. This then become a brother. As Lynn said- a lie is easier to remember if it contains some truth. Why she'd lie about this I do not know. Perhaps it sounded more exotic than having a brother who was a day labourer

[Wickerman]

Can I say

So why do we have to belive. How do we know that things such as these were not lies from the outset when they were given to the press.

Believe what?