Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Cogidubnus]

Fluid Intake

The doctors keep telling me to drink a lot of fluids I guess the peeing will still continue.

Me too Trevor...Marstons Pedigree mostly!

Good luck mate

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Which "press" story would you dismiss as obviously untrue, and why?

I wouldn't dismiss any out of hand Jon...and I suspect, despite your sophistry, you know it...I merely concurred with Trevor that otherwise unsubstantiated press reports need to be treated with some caution...

Let me turn the question...which part of Leather Apron do you find untrue and why?

Good luck always

Dave

[Trevor Marriott]

Which presumably is why you go peeing over everybody's fireworks?

Sorry...it's my silly sense of humour

Dave

But then again Fireworks go up in a puff of smoke just as some of the historical facts people having been relying on and using to prop up outdated theories have now gone the same way.

The doctors keep telling me to drink a lot of fluids I guess the peeing will still continue.

Sorry its my sense of humour to ! lol

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Well, I did find a lovely web site with Welsh mining disasters. Looked closely at Pen-y-Craig. 7 Davies killed--none of them married to a Kelly.

I believe Casebook has a thread on the Risca disaster.

Cheers.
LC

Are we only looking at disasters, or all explosions in the Carmarthenshire & Glamorganshire counties?
That could be either underground or surface. Something blew up and he died from his injuries, maybe not immediately?

I ask, are we drawing conclusions from a limited search or an exhaustive search?

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

Welsh disasters

Hello Jon. Well, I did find a lovely web site with Welsh mining disasters. Looked closely at Pen-y-Craig. 7 Davies killed--none of them married to a Kelly.

I believe Casebook has a thread on the Risca disaster.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Unusual - male boasting smaller than average

And at least my bladder isnt as big as your ego

Which presumably is why you go peeing over everybody's fireworks?

Sorry...it's my silly sense of humour

Dave

[Bridewell]

Agreed

The story tells us that he "came from Wales to find her", which implies it was not a casual visit. So as the family was "fairly well off"(?), the reason might have been very important to him. The suggestion that she intentionally avoided him also raises the question, did she know why?

Her friends warned her that he was looking for her.
So how would they know this unless he was asking for her by the name he knew her by, which had to be the same name that her friends knew her by, which also had to be the same name she used to rent the place in Pennington-street.

What name was that one may ask - what else could it have been?

Regards, Jon S.

I can't fault your logic here, Jon. He must, presumably, (always assuming that there is any truth to the story) have had a pretty good idea where she was living - either that or she was in clandestine correspondence (perhaps under an assumed name) with at least one member of the family and her father found out - recognised the handwriting on an envelope and intercepted the letter.

If (he speculates) MJK had written to a family member from a London address, using an assumed name, her father could have got hold of the letter, recognised the handwriting, and gone after his errant daughter. Why did she go out of her way to avoid him, and why did her friends warn her that he was looking for her? "She said she first went to Cardiff and was in an infirmary there 8 or 9 months and followed a bad life with a cousin whilst in Cardiff" according to Barnett. (More speculation): set up home with a cousin and got pregnant by him - hence the time spent in an infirmary?

There has been speculation as to whether or not the "Johnto" in the Scots Guards might have been a lover, rather than a brother. It's not a nice thought, but how angry would her father have been if he had learned that Johnto was both? Sorry, MJK, if there is no truth to this, but I wonder if the dark past which is suspected might have involved incest.

Regards, Bridewell.

[PaulB]

[QUOTE=Trevor Marriott;217406]

Waving your inflated pig's bladder again. Go and play detective, Trevor, I don't have the time for you.[/QUOTE

Well maybe you should try it instead of playing at being "Historical Harry"

And at least my bladder isnt as big as your ego

Ha, ha. Idiot.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon

If I follow Trevor correctly, I believe he's suggesting that a lot of the fairy tales told to reporters eagerly questioning the locals are just that...fairy tales concocted for the sake of gaining attention (plus perhaps a few free drinks)...on which basis he's suggesting we should be cautious in trusting press reports which aren't substantiated elsewhere...

Dave.
Have all the Passenger manifests been checked to see if members of the Kelly family sailed from Ireland to Wales in the late 1870's?
Marriage licences from both Carmarthenshire & Glamorganshire for the same period?
Death records, obituaries, for miners named Davis/Davies in both counties around 1880 +/- 2 yrs?
Medical records of all hospitals and infirmaries established in the Cardiff area for the same period?
Passenger manifest to/from France for the period 1880-84?

You get the point?, even though some of these records have been researched we cannot claim that all sources have been exhausted.
Or is someone actually claiming that they have?

We appear to have no soldier named Henry/John Kelly fitting the bill, so we are left to conclude he enlisted under an alternate, but have we truely exhausted all avenue's in the military angle?

Which "press" story would you dismiss as obviously untrue, and why?

Regards, Jon S.

[Trevor Marriott]

[QUOTE=PaulB;217401]Waving your inflated pig's bladder again. Go and play detective, Trevor, I don't have the time for you.[/QUOTE

Well maybe you should try it instead of playing at being "Historical Harry"

And at least my bladder isnt as big as your ego

[lynn cates]

Jane Drake

Hello Mr. Begg. I am delighted with the Fleming story--believe it on the up and up.

Jane Drake? I like it.

Here's something I found in my file. Part of a poster from 1883:

"You will note with pleasure that the informer is foredoomed, that no man can betray and live, no corner of the earth too obscure or too far to hide . . ."

Sounds a bit threatening. Know the author?

Cheers.
LC

[PaulB]

The story tells us that he "came from Wales to find her", which implies it was not a casual visit. So as the family was "fairly well off"(?), the reason might have been very important to him. The suggestion that she intenionally avoided him also raises the question, did she know why?

Her friends warned her that he was looking for her.
So how would they know this unless he was asking for her by the name he knew her by, which had to be the same name that her friends knew her by, which also had to be the same name she used to rent the place in Pennington-street.

What name was that one may ask - what else could it have been?

Regards, Jon S.

Yes indeed.

[PaulB]

Or could it be that everyone else on here is right and you are wrong.

Now that would be a first wouldnt it.

Waving your inflated pig's bladder again. Go and play detective, Trevor, I don't have the time for you.

[PaulB]

Hello Mr. Begg. I agree that parts of her story are VERY detailed. And yet, not a single bit is confirmed.

Sounds so very like a cover story. Something to be used over and over.

Maybe I am watching too many "Danger Man" episodes in syndication?

Cheers.
LC

I wouldn't say 'not a single bit'. Mrs Carthy. Mrs Buki. Okay, so they aren't exactly great, and we can dismiss them as yet more lies and journalistic inventions, which, as said, is a quick and easy get out when we encounter stories we can't verify, but prima facie they seemingly support some aspects of Kelly's tale. And people seem to accept the reality of Joseph Fleming and even 'Morganstone'.

As for a cover story, well, what are you hinting at, that Kelly had some deep, dastardly secret she wanted to hide? That she was a female John Drake under deep cover? It would be exciting if she was.

[lynn cates]

light, not heat

Hello Trevor. Now, now.

Cheers.
LC