Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Debra A]

Many thanks for this Debs
Your research work is much appreciated and explores avenues that may well yield results
Chris

Thanks Chris.

[Debra A]

Next lot

7607 Patrick Kelly (deserted)

This number is linked to Michael Kelly b 1868 in Tralee Tralee, Creiry [Kerry?]
attested at London 8 July 1887 aged 19 years 10 months
occupation groom
deserted 1887 rejoined 1891 discharged 1893?
educated at Christian Brothers School
next of kin Susan [no surname] mother 55 High St Tralee Kerry

6374 Michael Kelly (on 1881 census shown as age 21, born Stirling, Scotland)

Michael Kelly b 1865 Maycullen Galway, Galway
attested 26th May 1884 age 19 years 4 months at Hamilton [Lanarkshire]
discharged 1896
next of kin father Bryan[?] Kelly 71 Str??field Blantyre [Lanarkshire]


7623 Robert Kelly (join reserve)

Robert Kelly b 1864 in troon Ayrshire
attested 18 July 1887 aged 23 years 3 months at London
occupation tailor
imprisoned frequently between 88 and 89
next of kin John Kelly, father and Marian Rodgers, mother-12 University ?? Glasgow


7754 Patrick O’Kelly (joined reserve)

Patrick O'Kelly b 1868 Cork, Cork
attested 2 Sept. 1887 aged 19 years 4 months at London
occupation labourer
discharged in 1899 and rejoined colours 1900 to 1903
next of kin Timothy Kelly father of Cork
wife [of Patrick] Julia, 57 Heath Rd Lambeth

[lynn cates]

dates

Hello Debs. Thanks. 3000 are a bit much.

Yes, I agree that one could go back a tad before 1885. He may have been there longer.

Cheers.
LC

[Chris Scott]

Many thanks for this Debs
Your research work is much appreciated and explores avenues that may well yield results
Chris

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. A very good idea.

How many variants are considered? Were there any Kelleys?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,
Thanks, I'm just going by Neal's original list for now; men attested 1885-mid 1888 shown on the muster roll.
Neal's list does include some variants of the name as you can see, so I am sure he thought to look for names such as Kelley etc. as well.

The pension records are on Find my past if anyone else want to help research this. My sub runs out next month again so I'm trying to look at as many as I can now.
There were approx. 3,000 men attested to the Scots Guards (all battalions) between 1868 and 1888.

It would be worth stretching to Kellys attested before 1885 as well at some point, but not later than 88 of course.

[lynn cates]

all of them

Hello (again) Debs. It occurs to me that, given a fairly manageable finite number of 2nd battalion Scots guards, I wonder if those of us who have ancestry could do a search of each one and find connections?

Do you have an approximate figure?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Kelley

Hello Debs. A very good idea.

How many variants are considered? Were there any Kelleys?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Here are my first couple of results [selected details from more extensive records and shown in red] from cross referencing the soldier numbers with the Chelsea pension records:

6192 James Kelly (discharged)
Number attached to John Wells discharged from Scots guards in 1876-will re-check later

6935 James Kelly (joined at 30)
:James KELLY Year of birth:1864
Place of birth:St Leonard, Bridgnorth, Shropshire
Previous service in Cheshire Regiment
joined Scots Guards 28th Sept. 1885 at Shrewsbury aged 21 years 2 months, a farm labourer.
discharged from army in 1892 (including reserves)
Next of kin-mother- Ann Kelly -address-84 Cartway Bridgenorth Shropshire.

7734 James Kelly
unable to trace by number-will come back to him

5857 James Kelly
This number is linked to William Kelly b 1864 Kildare, Kildare Wicklow
Attestation date 5 Oct 1883 Scots Guards
age at attestation 19 years 4 months
occupation-weaver
Previously served in 3rd East Lancashire Regiment
Roman Catholic
discharged 30th Sept. 1895-12 years service (including reserves)
next of kin William Kelly 10 Plymouth street Blackburn Lancashire

5786 Patrick Kelly (joined reserve)

Patrick Kelly b 1860 in Jonesborough Newry Armagh
age at attestation 23
attestation date 17 Aug 1883 Scots Guards
previous service in Royal irish Rifles
deserted in 1886 rejoined regiment in 1887
discharged March 1889
next of kin brother James [cross after this name and John older written in] living in Jonesborough Armagh

[Debra A]

Here is Neal's original post

Last year, in searching for Mary Jane Kelly’s brother in the 2nd Brigade Scots Guards musters records at the PRO, I made this account of all the names and numbers of Kelly‘s and McCarthy‘s and variants. I have also added some notes.

2nd Brigade Scots Guards musters records - from 1885- to mid 1888.

6192 James Kelly (discharged)
6935 James Kelly (joined at 30)
7734 James Kelly
5857 James Kelly
5352 William Kelly (on 1881 census shown as age 27, born Westmeath, IRE)
5786 Patrick Kelly (joined reserve)
7607 Patrick Kelly (deserted)
6374 Michael Kelly (on 1881 census shown as age 21, born Stirling, Scotland)
7623 Robert Kelly (join reserve)
7754 Patrick O’Kelly (joined reserve)
6330 Michael Keily or Kiely (at school , discharged, later to Lance Corporal?)
5786 P.Keilly (in prison)
Earlier P.Kelly?
And M.Kelly (to Dublin Fusiliers)?
4735 Michael Kelly (from C? Corps to army reserve)
4751 I failed to write down the name but it would not have been Henry, John, or Johnto? (to army reserve)
6269 Thomas Kelly (relegated from 40th Green, discharged)
7421 John Robert Killey (b.May 1867?)
John Robert Killey discharge certificate said: Born at Ramsey, Isle of Man. Joined 19yrs 9mnths, occupation: sailor, 5ft 8¼ ins, chest 34 ins, fresh complexion, brown hair, grey eyes, recruited at Liverpool on 15th Feb 1887, Royal Artillery gave him notice. Father John, mother Mary, younger brother Thomas. Living: College Street, Ramsey, Isle of Man. Service record: 17th Feb 1887-14th Feb 1899=12 years.
Continued musters record:
6347 Charles McCarthy (to army reserve)
5770 Thomas McCarthy (to army reserve)
6552 William McCartney?
Also a Henry McCaskie?

As we can see from the list there was no Henry, John or Johnto Kelly‘s, or variants, or McCarthy’s, in the muster records for the 2nd Brigade Scots Guards. Maybe Kelly’s brother joined up after mid-1888, but I think it unlikely?
Therefore, discharge certificates would have to be searched for most of the men above, but I fear that there is little chance that he was one of the above even if we believe her story?
It may well be that we have to concede that his surname was another name, and that we should look in the records for a different surname with the first names of Henry, John, or Johnto. This would also account for the man only being a lover of Mary Jane Kelly, rather than her brother.

[Debra A]

Copied over from another thread:

I just found an old post in the archives by Neal Shelden that gives the names and soldier numbers of all men with the surname Kelly or McCarthy in 2nd Battalion Scots Guards from Muster Rolls 1885-mid 1888.
I just realised that I can use the numbers Neal recorded from these records to check their pension records with fuller details.
It might draw a blank but worth it for ruling out too I think?....if it works!

Thanks very much Neal!