Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Debra A]

Hi all,

Unfortunately, not all of the soldiers listed in the database have a place of birth given in the searchable index, although it does normally appear somewhere in their file.

So, there are 644 men listed as born in various parts of Ireland or no place of birth given in index. Searching with Limerick County [to cover both town and county] narrows it down to 424 records but only one of these men has his place of birth as Limerick County in the index.
That's where trawling comes in...to root out the others.

It's not possible to search the index by residence before attestation or by residence of next of kin.

The one Limerick county born man is John Ward b Askeaton, Limerick 1856.
He enlisted in 1877 at Limerick age 21 and served from 81-89
Wife- Margaret O'Connor married at St. Finbarr Cork 2nd Sept 1882
Place of discharge London.

I'll keep an eye out for others.

[Archaic]

Hi Debs.

Is it possible to do a search for members of the Scots Guards who were either born in Ireland or lived in Wales, or would that result in an impossibly large number of men?

Thanks,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Yeah, thought you'd've had it covered...(easy she says...who's she kidding?)

All the best

Dave

[Debra A]

Hi Dave,
I did it the easy way-I put up the whole list of 2875 men attested to any of the battalions of the Scots Guards between 1868 and 1888 and looked at all the ones which looked or sounded even remotely like Kelly to me.

[Cogidubnus]

Sucking eggs

Hi Debs

I guess you've tried the obvious anglicisations like Queally, Quealy etc?

Dave

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

I looked at the Andrew Kellys of Pennsylvania. Without
much information to identify him as James' brother,
there's just too many to be certain. Most came over during
or post-famine years, or around the time of the American
Civil War.

There was one who came over in about 1890,
but he ended up in the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane
for at least twenty years, probably in the prison wing
(as it says "prison", where occupation should be). So it'd
be unlikely that James would give him as next of kin (unless
he didn't know). Makes for some sad reading.

Sorry.

Liv

Thanks very much for looking, Liv. I appreciate it.


Anyhoo, I've exhausted all the Kellys in the Scots Guards and none fit the bill.
Any more for any more guesses on the surname?

[Archaic]

Archaic, there's one man with the surname Henry who was serving in 1888.
James Henry b 1867 Ballynascree Drapcostown Derry (Londonderry)
attested 13 th June 1887 aged 20 years 9 months at Glasgow
discharged 1899
next of kin brother Daniel Newcastle on Tyne

Thanks very much, Debs.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Livia]

Hi Debs,

I looked at the Andrew Kellys of Pennsylvania. Without
much information to identify him as James' brother,
there's just too many to be certain. Most came over during
or post-famine years, or around the time of the American
Civil War.

There was one who came over in about 1890,
but he ended up in the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane
for at least twenty years, probably in the prison wing
(as it says "prison", where occupation should be). So it'd
be unlikely that James would give him as next of kin (unless
he didn't know). Makes for some sad reading.

Sorry.

Liv

[Debra A]

Hi Bridewell and Lynn,
Thomas has been put forward as both a middle and a surname before, in combination with the first name John.
As far as the Scots Guards go there was one John Thomas serving in 1888 but he was from Shropshire and his father's name was James, so that rules him out I guess.

[lynn cates]

spculation

Hello Bridewell. Hmm, speculation--insofar as it guides research--may be a good thing.

John Thomas? Not heard of Johnto for that, but not a bad idea.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

John Thomas

Hello Bridewell. Hmm, perhaps a tad. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Thanks Lynn,

As I seem to be acquiring a bit of a reputation for speculation on this thread, is there also a possibility that "Johnto" was one of the more polite nicknames which might be given to a soldier named John Thomas?

If so, there is a Mary Jane Thomas, aged 6 (so probably 24 in late 1888) born and living in Llanelly, with a father named John, & an elder brother also called John. Father is a Master Haulier & son is a Moulder (Iron), so there was presumably an ironworks nearby. It's only one of innumerable possibles, none of which is an exact fit, but does anyone know whether Johnto was supposed to be older or younger than MJK and, if so, by how much?

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

stretch

Hello Bridewell. Hmm, perhaps a tad. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Debs and Livia; thanks for all your hard work.

This is a long shot, but is there any chance that the "Henry" that Barnett spoke of was actually a surname and not a given name?

Barnett was distraught and might not have expressed himself clearly. And I could see "Henry" not having been among the most popular given names among 19th C. Irish Catholics - think Henry VIII and the Dissolution of the Church. But "Henry" is a very common Irish surname.

(As I'm sure you know, sometimes it was originally "O'Henry", becoming simplified into just "Henry".)

Has anybody ever checked this possibility?

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

Archaic, there's one man with the surname Henry who was serving in 1888.
James Henry b 1867 Ballynascree Drapcostown Derry (Londonderry)
attested 13 th June 1887 aged 20 years 9 months at Glasgow
discharged 1899
next of kin brother Daniel Newcastle on Tyne

[Archaic]

Could "Henry" Be The Surname?

"...deceased told me on one occasion...that she
had a brother named Henrry (sic?) serving in
2nd Battn Scots Guards and known amongst
his comrades as Johnto and I believe the
Regiment is now in Ireland..."

Hi Debs and Livia; thanks for all your hard work.

This is a long shot, but is there any chance that the "Henry" that Barnett spoke of was actually a surname and not a given name?

Barnett was distraught and might not have expressed himself clearly. And I could see "Henry" not having been among the most popular given names among 19th C. Irish Catholics - think Henry VIII and the Dissolution of the Church. But "Henry" is a very common Irish surname.

(As I'm sure you know, sometimes it was originally "O'Henry", becoming simplified into just "Henry".)

Has anybody ever checked this possibility?

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[Debra A]

(I think it would be stretching a point to argue that she was born in Ireland, but moved to Glasgow - via Limerigg!)

Regards, Bridewell.

Keep at it, you never know!