Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Carol]

I didn't know that Mary's father had come to see her either. I think I learn something new practically every time I visit Casebook (at least it seems so)!

Could it be that the Kelly family had already decided to emigrate to America and her father had come to see her to try and persuade her to come with them.

Could it be that the family knew about her 'way of life' and this was the final chance for them to try and 'turn her around'.

Carol

[Carol]

I don't know if this is of any interest to anyone but I used to work as a teaching assistant for the last seven years before I retired. One of the boys was half-Welsh (his mother). His name was spelt Ioan. As we're in Sweden you can imagine the various pronunciations of his name - poor lad. One day I asked him how his name was really pronounced and he said 'YO-AN'.

Carol

[Archaic]

re: Mary's Father

As far as I can recall, it isn't known for certain that Mary Kelly's father knew that she was working as a prostitute, is it?

Women who fell into that lifestyle often fibbed to their families back home, assuring them that they were working as a respectable "milliner's assistant" or something.

Mary might have avoided her father when he came looking for her for this very reason; she couldn't bear for him to know the truth. Even if he came because he wanted to take her home, that isn't proof that he knew the full truth.

Does anybody have any further information that might clarify this issue?

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[Garry Wroe]

Hello Garry. Thanks. You are suggesting that the correspondence came from this boyfriend? If so, then to deceive Barnett, I suppose it would require a fake signature and address?

From what I recall of Barnett's newspaper interviews, Lynn, I very much doubt that he ever read these letters.

[Garry Wroe]

Garry, wasn't this claim made by Barnett during a newspaper interview?

Possibly.

In the same article Barnett also said he couldn't remember the name of Mary's husband and that her father had also visited but Mary had kept out of his way?

Since I only learned about the alleged visit by Kelly's father relatively recently, the piece you have cited couldn't have been one of those I used when writing my book in the mid-Nineties. There must be other sources out there somewhere.

[lynn cates]

boyfriend

Hello Garry. Thanks. You are suggesting that the correspondence came from this boyfriend? If so, then to deceive Barnett, I suppose it would require a fake signature and address?

Cheers.
LC

[Garry Wroe]

The version I recall, Lynn, involved Kelly being visited at Miller's Court rather than during the period that predated her relationship with Barnett. There is also the issue of the correspondence received from Ireland. The overwhelming likelihood to my way of thinking is that this emanated from her soldier visitor - another indication that he was not a family member as claimed by Kelly. Unless, of course, he was a little busy during the week in question and simply forgot to tell the rest of the family that Mary Jane had just been butchered by Jack the Ripper. As you do ...

[lynn cates]

news story

Hello Debs. Thanks. Looks like "Lloyd's Weekly."

It sounds like Barnett may have gotten the story from Mary. As Garry says, Barnett never claimed to have met him personally.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Just checked "The Times." Not found. I suppose I must try another paper?

Cheers.
LC

Sorry, here you go, Lynn.
Posted by Pinkerton on casebook

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=53979&postcount=7

[lynn cates]

papers

Hello Debs. Just checked "The Times." Not found. I suppose I must try another paper?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Not specifically, I'm afraid, Lynn. My memory no longer has the flypaper quality it once had, so I tend to become confused over sourcing issues. I suspect, however, that the soldier's visit arose during Abberline's questioning of Barnett.

Garry, wasn't this claim made by Barnett during a newspaper interview? In the same article Barnett also said he couldn't remember the name of Mary's husband and that her father had also visited but Mary had kept out of his way?

[lynn cates]

Et tu?

Hello Garry. Yes, I am victim of that same phenomenon.

Thanks.

Cheers.
LC

[Garry Wroe]

Personally, I don't see the harm if that's what people choose to research.

Each to their own.

[Debra A]

I gathered as much. But prevention is better than cure.

Personally, I don't see the harm if that's what people choose to research.

[Garry Wroe]

Hello Richard.

"Is it not conceivable that the Joe,.. Kelly was fond of, was the person serving in that regiment, and Barnett was told that it was her brother Henry[ rather like being caught with a member of the opposite sex by a partner, and introducing them as a cousin.]"

If so, then either:

1. Barnett was confused about not having met him.

or

2. Lying.

Barnett never stated that he met 'Johnto', Lynn. He said that Johnto had visited Kelly. The greater likelihood to my mind is that the visit occurred during the daytime whilst Barnett was at work, and culminated with a drinking spree in the East End. Thus it is perfectly plausible that the visit occurred and that Barnett never saw the visitor.