6d. Did Liz spend it, or die for it?

[curious4]

Grapes

Hello Wickerman,

No, I didn't know that. Very interesting, blood disease or not. I do have to admit to a tendency to believe in the grapes. Those fruit stains must have come from somewhere.

Best wishes,
C4

[Wickerman]

This has just occured to me. One of the doctors remarked that Liz had lost more blood than he would have expected for her height and size ...... What if Liz suffered from haemophilia type C?

Has it never occured to anyone that dark grapes (red/black) contain salicylates which inhibit the ability of blood to clot?, also...

More recent studies have shown that the proanthcyanadins and polyphenols in the dark pigment of the purple grapes are potent antioxidants that prevent premature blood clotting.

http://www.healthedcorp.com/articles/Foods_that_Naturally_Thin_the_Blood.pdf

I only mention this because my wife is on bloodthinners so we tend to read up on this subject.

.

[curious4]

Trickler

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

Although one cannot spurt with the heart stopped, you should be trickling for a good bit.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

With my knowledge of the Swedish I feel sure Liz was more of a trickler than a spurter.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

[lynn cates]

health

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks

Well, I can't rule that out. Also, she seemed to be well fed and was in fairly good health, compared to Polly and Annie.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

bare possibility

Hello Velma. Thanks.

Well, just a bare possibility. (Um, forgive the pun.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

trickle down theory

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

Although one cannot spurt with the heart stopped, you should be trickling for a good bit.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Sources

Dr Blackwell: "Deceased would take about a minute and a half to bleed to death", Jack the Ripper Source Book by Evans and Skinner, Details of the resumed inquest, The Times, 3rd October 1888.

Dr Phillips: "Roughly estimating it I should say there was an unusual flow of blood considering the stature and nourishment of the body." Jack the Ripper Source book by Evans and Skinner, The Times, 4th October 1888

C4

[curious4]

Hello namesake,
See my follow-up. Although one of the doctors estimated that it would have taken one to two minutes for her to bleed to death.

Cheers,
C4

[curious4]

Unless....

Hello again Lynn,

This has just occured to me. One of the doctors remarked that Liz had lost more blood than he would have expected for her height and size (read this ten minutes ago and now can't find it again). What if Liz suffered from haemophilia type C? This would really mess things up (thank you, Dorothy Sayers). Type C can occur in both men and women, is most prevalent in Spanish jews (8%) (think we can rule this out in Liz's case, although Gothenburg is a busy port), and occurs in 1% of other populations. Type C sufferers do not have problems with cuts and so on, but can have problems with surgery (if you can call a cut throat surgery). I had a friend who was diagnosed with this after she lost a lot of blood during a C-section with her second child (first pregnancy and birth normal). In her case (she was irish) I think possibly spaniards may have been involved way back due to the influx of spaniards after the Armada, or she could have been one of the 1%. She only found out that she had it after a letter from the good old swedsih national health saying "you have haemophilia, enclosed a brochure for your information" (sorry, musn't knock the swedish health system, excellent, although a tad short on the gentle touch), was in her late twenties and had had no problems until then.

If Liz did have haemophilia type C, this would knock out all bleeding and clotting times, as far as I can see she would have bled for longer, but clot eventually (although I'm far from an expert on this.

Best wishes,

Gwyneth

[curious]

Hello Lynn,

(Why do I get the feeling I'm digging a hole for myself here?)

All the best,
Gwyneth

Perhaps because you are? Hole digging is far too easy here.

I did a little research (very little) and found a range of 3 to 19 minutes for the bleeding -- depending on the person's health, diet, etc.

curious

[curious]

Hello Velma. Thanks.

Ah, so not soliciting?

Cheers.
LC

Don't you think that possibility exists?

Velma

[curious4]

Por que?

Hello Lynn,

Ok, small possibility that she could still be bleeding after five minutes (more likely if she had medical help - not quite sure what is meant by that, presumably they would be trying to help her live, not to die more slowly). If she was still bleeding just after one, she couldn't have been dead then. No-one touched her until Spooner lifted her chin, after the club members arrived and blood was still trickling - not clotted, which would have taken fifteen minutes. (Why do I get the feeling I'm digging a hole for myself here?)

All the best,
Gwyneth

[lynn cates]

Por que no?

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

Why not 12.56?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

devil indeed

Hello Velma. Thanks.

Ah, so not soliciting?

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Time after time

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

Did not the doctor say between 12.46 and 12.56? But if Dimshits arrived at 1.00 . . . ?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

I don't think any of the times were 100% accurate, were they? And if she was still bleeding when found, she can't have had her throat cut at 12.46 and it is unlikely to have been 12.56. The good doctors had no reason to be precise, they couldn't possibly know we'd still be arguing
about it 125 years on and couldn't have been exact even if they'd wanted to.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth