Diemschutz arrival

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

If you thought yourself under police surveillance and a dead body turned up on your doorstep, would you not wish to consider your options?

Surely a blessing in disguise and a stroke of good fortune if a body turned up on your doorstep whilst under surveillance by the authorities?

This, especially if one of your lads possibly went out the side door and caught a glimpse of the action?

Which member caught a glimpse of the action?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Simon

It never ceases to amaze me what flaming hoops we have to jump through in order to make the Authorised Version of the Stride murder come true.

It`s a stroll in the park for me, Simon. Lovely it is, this time of year.
Sure you`re not lost?

[lynn cates]

Agnus

Hello Cris. Of course, Lamb noted that it was just before 1.00 when he saw the lads running and shouting.

Medicos? Between 12.46-12.56.

If you thought yourself under police surveillance and a dead body turned up on your doorstep, would you not wish to consider your options? This, especially if one of your lads possibly went out the side door and caught a glimpse of the action?

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

Indeed...

It's much more sensible to speculate beyond the realm if probability. Instead of doing what most people do when they find a dead body and immediately cause a commotion and go for a policeman, the club members conspired to wait 15 minutes until they could get their stories in sync.

If course, Spooner and Mortimer weren't in on it. Spooner said that Lamb arrived about 4 minutes after he got there. And Lamb placed his time close to 1 o'clock. Mortimer heard the cart go by, heard the commotion, and went out to see what was going on shortly after one o'clock. But the cart might have been going instead of coming. Trouble is... the cart was still in the yard, pulled up to the door. Then there's the medical opinion placing the murder sometime after 12:45.

And then there's PC Smith, who's beat took him up Commercial Rd. from the direction of Batty St. He did not pass beyond Berner. Now where was that clock?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

I wonder why PC Smith didn't catch sight of Solomon De la Fuente's clock.

It never ceases to amaze me what flaming hoops we have to jump through in order to make the Authorised Version of the Stride murder come true.

Regards,

Simon

[mariab]

Stride threads are sooooo circular... like a hamster doing his rounds on a wheel.

[sleekviper]

Does Mortimer give two versions???

[Tom_Wescott]

Mike and Simon,

Follow me here. PC Smith was notoriously incorrect in his timing that night. He did not have a time piece and was giving his times based on when he was SUPPOSED to have been in the street, so if anybody's timing should be suspect, it should be his sighting of Stride at 12:35. Diemshitz, on the other hand, gave not only a time but the time piece he used which could then be checked for accuracy. Contrary to what Mike says, Fanny Mortimer saw Goldstein walked through the street, went back inside, and shortly after heard Diemshitz's cart pass. Right after that she heard the hue and cry raised at the club. All the timing fits perfectly with the 1am Diemshitz gives. Zero evidence points to the contrary.

The End.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi Bridewell,

Because your question implies that you believe both men were where they said they were at 1.00 am.

Regards,

Simon

[Bridewell]

Kindly Explain?

Hi Bridewell,

[PC Smith] When I came to the spot [Dutfields Yard] two constables had already arrived.

Kindly explain how PC Smith [on the corner of Berner Street at 1.00 am] contrived to be the third cop to arrive at the murder scene.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

Why have I got to explain anything? All I did was to ask a question.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Bridewell,

[PC Smith] When I came to the spot [Dutfields Yard] two constables had already arrived.

Kindly explain how PC Smith [on the corner of Berner Street at 1.00 am] contrived to be the third cop to arrive at the murder scene.

Regards,

Simon

[Bridewell]

Hi Michael,

None.

[Louis Diemschitz] I left home about half-past eleven in the morning, and returned exactly at one o'clock on Sunday morning. I noticed the time at the baker's shop at the corner of Berner-street.

[PC 452H William Smith] I was in Berner-street about half-past twelve or twenty-five minutes to one o'clock, and having gone round my beat, was at the Commercial-road corner of Berner-street again at one o'clock.

Neither man mentioned having seen the other.

Regards,

Simon

Did either man have any particular reason to notice the other at that time?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Michael,

None.

[Louis Diemschitz] I left home about half-past eleven in the morning, and returned exactly at one o'clock on Sunday morning. I noticed the time at the baker's shop at the corner of Berner-street.

[PC 452H William Smith] I was in Berner-street about half-past twelve or twenty-five minutes to one o'clock, and having gone round my beat, was at the Commercial-road corner of Berner-street again at one o'clock.

Neither man mentioned having seen the other.

Regards,

Simon

[Michael W Richards]

We have his own time, the method of time keeping, and corroboration from Fanny Mortimer (who heard him pass AFTER she closed her door at approx 12:56am. And zero evidence to contradict him.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

We have his word, yes Tom. His word he saw the clock show 1am. We have Fanny hearing a cart and horse, we do not know whether that was coming or going however, and she didnt see Louis or his cart specifically.

My point is since no-one saw him arrive, and since no-one saw any activity near the gates after 12:35am other than Israel Schwartz, who no-one sees or hears as well, its possible that he arrived during the period where no-one was watching the street near the gates, between PC Smiths sighting of Liz around 12:35am and Fanny Mortimer being at her door almost continuously from 12:50am until 1am, not until 12:56 as you suggest. She saw Goldstein then, she didnt leave the doorway.

Thats 15 unaccounted for minutes, unless of course you feel Israel Schwartz is a witness worth belief, unlike the people selecting witnesses for the Inquest.

Fanny says she was at her door almost continuously from 12:50 until 1am....so why is it she doesnt see or hear any approaching cart?

Cheers

[Tom_Wescott]

We have his own time, the method of time keeping, and corroboration from Fanny Mortimer (who heard him pass AFTER she closed her door at approx 12:56am. And zero evidence to contradict him.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott