Diemschutz arrival

[Supe]

Phil,

I think Kidney is a highly tenable suspect.

Tom Wescott rather destroyed that idea in Casebook Examiner No. 1 (April 2010).

Don.

[Phil H]

I think Kidney is a highly tenable suspect. But I have no proof.

I see more likelihood in that possibility than in JtR being responsible.

Phil H

[DVV]

miakaal
Over many years I have thought about the "double-event" - then 10 years or more ago a couple of books introduced me to the idea that maybe not all the murders were by "Jack" and that Kidney was a realistic suspect in the death of Liz Stride. That freed up my thinking.
I began to see that Berners St coulod be perceived as outside "Jacks'" usual territory (on the "wrong" side of Whitechapel Road); and that a separate killer for stride freed up the killer of eddowes to stalk and kill her without the idea of a frantic search for a second victim. (That never struck me as "true".)
Kidney killing Stride does not fit too badly with Schwartz's testimony - the second man could possibly be Stride's "date" for the night. (I must say, however, that I remain highly sceptical of what Schwartz is alleged to have said - he spoke in a foreign language, there may have been misunderstandings in translation and the texts of the police and press differ significantly.)

But such changes of perspective do free us up to look again at the stride killing - meaning that Diemschitz may well have stumbled across the body sometime after Kidney had left the scene.

But I admit all this is speculative, hardly accepted by anyone and strongly resisted by the traditionalist brigade. But I urge you to keep as open a mind as possible on all the murders. It opens up a fresh range of options.

Phil H

Phil, I don't know if keeping Stride into the frame is a hallmark of traditionalism (almost a swearword in our world), but I have an idea that her decanonization could well be nothing but mere iddle deconstruction.
Not sure what you mean by "realistic suspect". Can it be coupled with "unlikely" ? - for instance : "Kidney is a realistic but unlikely suspect" ?

[Phil H]

miakaal

Over many years I have thought about the "double-event" - then 10 years or more ago a couple of books introduced me to the idea that maybe not all the murders were by "Jack" and that Kidney was a realistic suspect in the death of Liz Stride. That freed up my thinking.

I began to see that Berners St coulod be perceived as outside "Jacks'" usual territory (on the "wrong" side of Whitechapel Road); and that a separate killer for stride freed up the killer of eddowes to stalk and kill her without the idea of a frantic search for a second victim. (That never struck me as "true".)

Kidney killing Stride does not fit too badly with Schwartz's testimony - the second man could possibly be Stride's "date" for the night. (I must say, however, that I remain highly sceptical of what Schwartz is alleged to have said - he spoke in a foreign language, there may have been misunderstandings in translation and the texts of the police and press differ significantly.)

But such changes of perspective do free us up to look again at the stride killing - meaning that Diemschitz may well have stumbled across the body sometime after Kidney had left the scene.

But I admit all this is speculative, hardly accepted by anyone and strongly resisted by the traditionalist brigade. But I urge you to keep as open a mind as possible on all the murders. It opens up a fresh range of options.

Phil H

[miakaal4]

Well Lynn I was sopposing that it was a JtR attack. Given that there are strong suspects of being Jack, who were considered violently insane, I was wondering if this control, hiding, not striking out, would be possible for those people.
Of cousr if what Phil say's is correct then the idea is null and void.

[Phil H]

I think the killer, probably Kidney, was gone well before Diemschitz reached the entrance to Dutfield's Yard.

Assuming that the attack was an act of anger/rage/passion, he slit her throat and left her. No need for having to allow time for mutilations that were never in prospect. He is probably the man Sugden found a reference to, sitting on a step in a nearby lstreet.

I have no idea whether there was space or opportunity for anyone to conceal themselves in the shadows/gloom near the gates, or elsewhere in the yard for that matter. But I regard the whole area as too public for the "Jack" who killed Nichols and Chapman. It also over-complicates the scenario IMHO.

The traditional approach - that Stride was a "Ripper" victim puts (pun intended) the cart before the horse. Rather ask - if we were detectives coming across the scene what would we infer?

Would we infer someone hiding, someone (never seen) slipping away?

Keep an open mind on this one is my advice.

Phil H

[lynn cates]

frenzy

Hello Miakaal. I wonder why you consider the attack frenzied? The throat cut seems less deep that Polly and Annie's, or even Kate's.

Cheers.
LC

[miakaal4]

The Casebook notes on Stride, discuss the idea that upon the arrival of Diemschutz, the Ripper took fright and hid, until the startled man left to get help, and then made off into the night. This is all very plausible and I do not doubt that is what happened. My question here is, would have someone in the middle of an uncontrolled and frenzied attack, been able to check themselves, refrain from attacking whoever disturbed them, (as pehaps a mad dog would) and leave? Does this not in fact point to a controlled mind who's determination not to be caught out weighs continuing his homicidal careering?
I feel his thought processes and methods of not being caught could say much about who he was.