Kate's Last Half Hour

[Leanne]

I think Kate had a meeting, prearranged. It may have been to meet someone at one location and then being sent to another.

If it wasn't pre-arranged, she knew the spot she could find this person and rushed there. Someone wrote:

'SUNDAY MORNING IN PETTICOAT LANE
In and about Houndsditch shops are open and watchmakers at work, heedless of the chaff upon their screwed-up eyes shouted in at them by filthy young roughs hanging before their windows. Every now and then some one passes with a garment or hat in his hand, or a clothes-bag on his back. Phil's Buildings and Cutler Street are choked with buyers and sellers of old clothes-male and female, pouring in and out of the old-clothes exchanges like very dirty bees at the entrances of very dingy hives...……........................................ ..……
On the other side of Houndsditch street-sellers are coming with their baskets and their barrows from the fruit market in Duke's Place and Mitre Street......'

JOSEPH BARNETT SOLD ORANGES ON THE STREETS AFTER HE LOST HIS JOB AT BILLINGSGATE.

https://www.victorianlondon.org/markets/petticoatlane.htm

[Sam Flynn]

JOSEPH BARNETT SOLD ORANGES ON THE STREETS AFTER HE LOST HIS JOB AT BILLINGSGATE.

Not at half-past one in the morning.

[Sam Flynn]

The suggested meeting might have originally been for midnight

And he waited an hour and a half for her to turn up? And why meet in the City, and not some quiet location closer to where Eddowes usually lived?

[Michael W Richards]

John Kelly firstly testified that he thinks she pawned his boots on Saturday morning. The coroner must have known that the ticket said it was Friday so asked:
'Mr. Crawford: Is it not the fact that the pawning took place on the Friday night? - I do not know. It was either Friday night or Saturday morning. I am all muddled up. (The tickets were produced, and were dated the 28th, Friday.)
[Crawford ?] She pawned the boots, did she not? - Yes; and I stood at the door in my bare feet.
[Crawford ?] Seeing the date on the tickets, cannot you recollect when the pawning took place? - I cannot say, I am so muddled up. It was either Friday or Saturday.
The Coroner: Had you been drinking when the pawning took place? - Yes.'

This is right at the end of his testimony,

Pawning the boots Friday night and doing so Saturday morning are distinctly different scenarios, one wonders if his drunk remarks suggest a reluctance to agree to a Friday night date on the ticket, after he had stated Saturday morning. in his account, Kate returns from the Work House early in the am, they then pawn the boots, get some tea and she heads off leaving him standing in his barefeet… what he intended to wear to market I cant say. If that's what happened, then why is Kate

released so early without having to do chores to work off her bed, and since

they were essentially broke, why is he still drunk Saturday morning? I submit that he knew when he said Saturday morning that it was actually Friday night...so why did he say it anyway?

[Herlock Sholmes]

And he waited an hour and a half for her to turn up? And why meet in the City, and not some quiet location closer to where Eddowes usually lived?

And with the police patrolling was this the best location for a rendezvous? No officer reported seeing a lone man loitering around.

[Michael W Richards]

Sorry about the previous posts structure, but my point is this....we don't really know where Kate spent Friday night do we? We do know that the pawn ticket was dated Friday, so why would Kelly be confused about that? Surely a sober Saturday am is clearer for him than a possibly drunk Friday night..he said hed been drinking. So, was he drinking Friday night on the pawn money, or was it money from somewhere else?

[Sam Flynn]

I imagine the invite went something like this: "Very well, Spitalfields-dwelling woman, let's meet at one o'clock tomorrow morning half a mile from where you usually hang out, in an almost deserted square in the City of London".

[Jon Guy]

...we don't really know where Kate spent Friday night do we? We do know that the pawn ticket was dated Friday, so

Didn`t she spend Friday night at Shoe Lane, Fleet Street ?

[Leanne]

Ne'er do wells can meet at any times. One/half-past in the morning seems silly.

Even sillier is planning a secret meeting with a killer and not telling anyone about it.

[Scott Nelson]

Someone wrote:
On the other side of Houndsditch street-sellers are coming with their baskets and their barrows from the fruit market in Duke's Place and Mitre Street......'

JOSEPH BARNETT SOLD ORANGES ON THE STREETS AFTER HE LOST HIS JOB AT BILLINGSGATE.

Orange sellers set up their barrows in St. James Place-- beginning very early in the morning. Many of these orange sellers lived on Mitre Street, around the corner.

[Michael W Richards]

I imagine the invite went something like this: "Very well, Spitalfields-dwelling woman, let's meet at one o'clock tomorrow morning half a mile from where you usually hang out, in an almost deserted square in the City of London".

Maybe more like " we can give you more money to keep your mouth shut than the coppers will to get you talkin, so meet me at 12 oclock tonight and ill take you to the person who will give you the money", spoken by the people who bought her drinks that afternoon, likely plying her to see what she really did know. Little did she know those same people would end up killing her, then cut her nose to indicate she was a "snitch", just like they had done in the past with others in East London.

At least my suggestion also explains at least one wound.

[Michael W Richards]

Even sillier is planning a secret meeting with a killer and not telling anyone about it.

Silly to secretly plan a meeting to get blackmail money from people she thought were responsible for the recent and local unsolved murders? Silly is suggesting she was intending to pawn a damaged apron when she had a new jacket at the time Leanne, plausible is using what is alleged she herself said to an ex-landlady about squealing on someone she thought was killing local women, and then seeing if she can get more money for not telling from those same parties. This woman associated with Irish factions in her past, likely self rule people among them, don't think she was any shrinking violet when it comes to bad guys. Maybe she should have been.

[Leanne]

Didn`t she spend Friday night at Shoe Lane, Fleet Street ?

That's what she told John and that's what he told the inquest, but is there a record of this?

[Leanne]

Orange sellers set up their barrows in St. James Place-- beginning very early in the morning. Many of these orange sellers lived on Mitre Street, around the corner.

But if he was Jack the Ripper, would he have gone to set up his barrow? Remember he'd just performed in Berner Street.
He'd just have to show up at the market to establish an alibi. I'd love to know how many oranges he sold that day.

[Leanne]

Why are we thinking about a pre-arranged meeting with a killer, and not a first approach to him?....where he was most likely to be early in the morning?