Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Kate's Last Half Hour

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Kate's Last Half Hour

    INSPECTOR COLLARD ITEMIZED KATE’S CLOTHING AND POSSESSIONS, AT THE CRIME SCENE:

    WEARING:

    ‘Black straw bonnet trimmed in green and black velvet with black beads. Black strings, worn tied to the head.

    Black cloth jacket trimmed around the collar and cuffs with imitation fur and around the pockets in black silk braid and fur. Large metal buttons.

    Dark green chintz skirt, 3 flounces, brown button on waistband. The skirt is patterned with Michaelmas daisies and golden lilies.

    Man's white vest, matching buttons down front.

    Brown linsey bodice, black velvet collar with brown buttons down front

    Grey stuff petticoat with white waistband

    Very old green alpaca skirt (worn as undergarment)

    Very old ragged blue skirt with red flounces, light twill lining (worn as undergarment)

    White calico chemise

    No drawers or stays

    Pair of men's lace up boots, mohair laces. Right boot repaired with red thread

    1 piece of red gauze silk worn as a neckerchief

    1 large white pocket handkerchief

    1 large white cotton handkerchief with red and white bird's eye border

    2 unbleached calico pockets, tape strings

    1 blue stripe bed ticking pocket

    Brown ribbed knee stockings, darned at the feet with white cotton



    POSSESSIONS:

    2 small blue bags made of bed ticking

    2 short black clay pipes

    1 tin box containing tea

    1 tin box containing sugar

    1 tin matchbox, empty

    12 pieces white rag, some slightly bloodstained

    1 piece coarse linen, white

    1 piece of blue and white shirting, 3 cornered

    1 piece red flannel with pins and needles

    6 pieces soap

    1 small tooth comb

    1 white handle table knife

    1 metal teaspoon

    1 red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings

    1 ball hemp

    1 piece of old white apron with repair

    Several buttons and a thimble

    Mustard tin containing two pawn tickets, One in the name of Emily Birrell, 52 White's Row, dated August 31, 9d for a man's flannel shirt. The other is in the name of Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street and dated September 28, 2S for a pair of men's boots. Both addresses are false.

    Printed handbill and according to a press report- a printed card for 'Frank Carter,305, Bethnal Green Road

    Portion of a pair of spectacles

    1 red mitten

    (NOTICE THAT THE PIECE OF WHITE APRON WAS LISTED AMOUNST HER POSSESSIONS. NOT HER CLOTHING, AND A CHEMISE IS NOT AN APRON)

  • #2

    After leaving the ‘drunk-tank’ at Bishopsgate Police station at 1am it was said that she turned left, which took her in the opposite direction of what would have been the fastest way back to Flower and Dean Street and John Kelly. She appeared to be heading back along Aldgate High Street where she had become drunk earlier. While walking that way she would have passed the entrance to Duke Street and a walk down it would have taken her to Church Passage which led into Mitre Square. Then Joseph Lawende said he saw her alive at 1:30am. It is estimated that it should have taken her less than ten minutes to reach Mitre Square, leaving a twenty minute gap from the time she departed the police station to the time that she was next seen. Why did she take so long?
    At her inquest it was found that she and John Kelly pawned John’s boots on Friday, (the day before her death), bought tea and sugar, and drank some. The tea and sugar listed above with her other possessions was what was left after their small feast. The 6 pieces of soap, the small tooth comb, the teaspoon and table knife are items to be expected in the pockets of someone that was looking for another place to sleep. But what about the buttons, the thimble, the pins, the needles, the course white linen, the 12 pieces of rag, the piece of blue and white shirting and the ball of hemp? Was she intending to sew handkerchiefs / neckerchiefs and/or bed ticking pockets to sell on the streets, or at Petticoat Lane Rag Fair on Middlesex Street and Wentworth Street. The Middlesex Street market was to open the next day, but the one on Wentworth Street was open six days a week. Was the apron her apron? John sacrificed his boots for her. Was she about to sacrifice her own apron?
    The name ‘Petticoat Lane’ was changed to ‘Middlesex Street’ around 1830, because some people didn’t want a street named after women’s underwear. (That’s why it’s impossible to locate it on some maps.) This map shows that Middlesex Street was just after Goulston Street.
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/leape/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/IMG]

    Here is a video taken in 1903 of Petticoat Lane Markets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5QdLV0dkk8
    Wentworth Street was the first narrow street to connect the two.

    Comment


    • #3
      https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...=0&eim=0,1,2,6
      MAP

      Comment


      • #4
        W....
        Last edited by FISHY1118; 07-12-2019, 03:21 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, to my mind it is almost certain she went soliciting straight away. Of course we have evidence of this when she picked up her killer. Plus the fact that she almost certainly spent the last of the money from the pawned boots on getting drunk. And she was wary of going home" I shall get a damned fine hiding", but if she earned the money back on what she spent would Kelly know she had got drunk in the first place? And even if he did perhaps he would have forgiven her if she had earned a few shillings.
          Regards Darryl

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
            Well, to my mind it is almost certain she went soliciting straight away. Of course we have evidence of this when she picked up her killer. Plus the fact that she almost certainly spent the last of the money from the pawned boots on getting drunk.
            No I think her and John spent all of that money on tea. She may have saved some tea and popped it in her pocket, or it may have been left over from another purchase she financed by soliciting. Yes she must have went soliciting straight away. John Kelly said at her inquest: "When I left her (at 2pm Saturday) she had no money about her." and he'd know how much the feast cost them. She would have had to sell herself to pay for her alchohol.

            Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
            And she was wary of going home" I shall get a damned fine hiding", but if she earned the money back on what she spent would Kelly know she had got drunk in the first place? And even if he did perhaps he would have forgiven her if she had earned a few shillings.
            Regards Darryl
            Remember Kelly didn't know that she took any of that money away with her. She may have wanted to purchase his boots back for him.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Leanne View Post
              After leaving the ‘drunk-tank’ at Bishopsgate Police station at 1am it was said that she turned left, which took her in the opposite direction of what would have been the fastest way back to Flower and Dean Street and John Kelly. She appeared to be heading back along Aldgate High Street where she had become drunk earlier. While walking that way she would have passed the entrance to Duke Street and a walk down it would have taken her to Church Passage which led into Mitre Square. Then Joseph Lawende said he saw her alive at 1:30am. It is estimated that it should have taken her less than ten minutes to reach Mitre Square, leaving a twenty minute gap from the time she departed the police station to the time that she was next seen. Why did she take so long?
              At her inquest it was found that she and John Kelly pawned John’s boots on Friday, (the day before her death), bought tea and sugar, and drank some. The tea and sugar listed above with her other possessions was what was left after their small feast. The 6 pieces of soap, the small tooth comb, the teaspoon and table knife are items to be expected in the pockets of someone that was looking for another place to sleep. But what about the buttons, the thimble, the pins, the needles, the course white linen, the 12 pieces of rag, the piece of blue and white shirting and the ball of hemp? Was she intending to sew handkerchiefs / neckerchiefs and/or bed ticking pockets to sell on the streets, or at Petticoat Lane Rag Fair on Middlesex Street and Wentworth Street. The Middlesex Street market was to open the next day, but the one on Wentworth Street was open six days a week. Was the apron her apron? John sacrificed his boots for her. Was she about to sacrifice her own apron?
              The name ‘Petticoat Lane’ was changed to ‘Middlesex Street’ around 1830, because some people didn’t want a street named after women’s underwear. (That’s why it’s impossible to locate it on some maps.) This map shows that Middlesex Street was just after Goulston Street.
              [IMG]file:///C:/Users/leape/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/IMG]

              Here is a video taken in 1903 of Petticoat Lane Markets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5QdLV0dkk8
              Wentworth Street was the first narrow street to connect the two.

              I wonder why John thought that was Saturday morning? And in his account, why would Kate be released that early in the morning if she had chores to do as part of her bed proviso. Doesn't it seem like he believed they had tea Saturday morning with the pawn money? Why would these statements clash with the dated pawn ticket?
              Michael Richards

              Comment


              • #8
                I think Kate had a meeting, prearranged. It may have been to meet someone at one location and then being sent to another. Kellys story is suspicious, he doesn't even seem concerned that as of Monday night Kate was still unaccounted for. When he knew where she was Saturday night and that she would soon be released.

                I think Kate sought hush money for what she knew, underestimating how nasty her potential reward money individuals were.
                Michael Richards

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's somewhat miraculous that Eddowes managed to sober up, wake up, and released from the cells just in time to make a prearranged meeting. Indeed, if she knew she had an important appointment, getting roaring drunk and incarcerated was pretty dumb in the first place, as there was no guarantee that she would wake up, or that the police would let her out.
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    It's somewhat miraculous that Eddowes managed to sober up, wake up, and released from the cells just in time to make a prearranged meeting. Indeed, if she knew she had an important appointment, getting roaring drunk and incarcerated was pretty dumb in the first place, as there was no guarantee that she would wake up, or that the police would let her out.
                    I don't imagine she planned getting that bombed Sam, but when someone else is picking up the tab...which it appears would have to have been the case, so maybe she overindulged. If there had been a meeting, say at midnight, and the party she was to meet had knowledge that she was in Bishopsgate until she sobered up, would they have waited? How important would Kate selling information about someone she believed was a killer be to either party? Might be worth the wait.

                    Maybe that hand on the chest Lawende saw, if that was Kate, was an expression of her relief that he waited for her.
                    Michael Richards

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                      I don't imagine she planned getting that bombed Sam, but when someone else is picking up the tab...
                      Why didn't she ask to be released sooner, instead of singing quietly to herself in the cells? She doesn't seem to have been in much hurry to leave - and, even if she'd wanted to, there was still no guarantee she would be released in time to make her appointment.

                      Speaking of which, who arranges to meet someone at gone one in the morning? If the meeting had been arranged for a more sensible time, I doubt that yer man would have hung around for hours on end until she eventually turned up.
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

                        Why didn't she ask to be released sooner, instead of singing quietly to herself in the cells? She doesn't seem to have been in much hurry to leave - and, even if she'd wanted to, there was still no guarantee she would be released in time to make her appointment.

                        Speaking of which, who arranges to meet someone at gone one in the morning? If the meeting had been arranged for a more sensible time, I doubt that yer man would have hung around for hours on end until she eventually turned up.
                        If she is meeting a n'er do well Sam, the middle of the night seems perfectly appropriate. Maybe she was patient until after midnight, at which time she expressed a likely "hiding" when she got home....or where she was really going?
                        Michael Richards

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ne'er do wells can meet at any times. One/half-past in the morning seems silly.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post


                            I wonder why John thought that was Saturday morning? And in his account, why would Kate be released that early in the morning if she had chores to do as part of her bed proviso. Doesn't it seem like he believed they had tea Saturday morning with the pawn money? Why would these statements clash with the dated pawn ticket?
                            John Kelly firstly testified that he thinks she pawned his boots on Saturday morning. The coroner must have known that the ticket said it was Friday so asked:
                            'Mr. Crawford: Is it not the fact that the pawning took place on the Friday night? - I do not know. It was either Friday night or Saturday morning. I am all muddled up. (The tickets were produced, and were dated the 28th, Friday.)
                            [Crawford ?] She pawned the boots, did she not? - Yes; and I stood at the door in my bare feet.
                            [Crawford ?] Seeing the date on the tickets, cannot you recollect when the pawning took place? - I cannot say, I am so muddled up. It was either Friday or Saturday.
                            The Coroner: Had you been drinking when the pawning took place? - Yes.'

                            This is right at the end of his testimony,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Ne'er do wells can meet at any times. One/half-past in the morning seems silly.
                              The suggested meeting might have originally been for midnight, before she overdid it that afternoon. Surely midnight would be a good time for n'er do wells?
                              Michael Richards

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X