Jack's Escape from Mitre Square

[Juniper4576]

Yes! I agree you on that. It really is the only possible explanation for how they were missed. Jack could have even hidden and waited to see if the PC would emerge in the Square or simply move on before he completed his 'work' on Eddowes.

And imagine if Watkins, the other PC, didn't go into the square like he said he did, and carried on along Mitre Street...people did say they didn't hear any noise in the square.

I mentioned Jacks luck before!

[Meet Ze Monster]

It appears his beat wasn't to go into the square. If the passage was was well lit and he didn't go fully down the passage and only a cursory look up the passage he probably missed Jack doing his stuff with the light of the passage showing only darkness beyond

Yes! I agree with you on that. It really is the only possible explanation for how they were missed. Jack could have even hidden and waited to see if the PC would emerge in the Square or simply move on before he completed his 'work' on Eddowes.

[Juniper4576]

It appears his beat wasn't to go into the square. If the passage was was well lit and he didn't go fully down the passage and only a cursory look up the passage he probably missed Jack doing his stuff with the light of the passage showing only darkness beyond

[Meet Ze Monster]

I love the way you can walk around the square

Yeah, and it leaves little doubt that where Church Passage exits into the square was in direct line of sight of the murder location. Either this was intentional so the Ripper could bolt as soon as he saw the PC enter the far end of Church Passage or by pure chance. In either case, it surely provided enough time for the Ripper to scarper being that the Passage was likely more well lit than the square?

[Juniper4576]

Nice! I have seen his stuff it turns out, but only a couple of 3D renderings on youtube. This really is superb! Thanks!

I love the way you can walk around the square

[Meet Ze Monster]

Have you seen richardh's work, it really is something:

https://jtr3d.com/

Nice! I have seen his stuff it turns out, but only a couple of 3D renderings on youtube. This really is superb! Thanks!

[Juniper4576]

I agree that it requires a pretty big leap of faith to make all timings work. So much depends on the patrol times and how much of Mitre Sq was actually patrolled. Did the PC only enter Church Passage far enough to just miss the murder in progress? Or at least miss Kate and Jack in the location of her demise? The patrol which resulted in the body's discovery was either more thorough OR the body, or something, could be seen clear enough from Church Passage to warrant investigation. Is there any info regarding lighting in Mitre Sq? Soooo many questions!! Can't get no satisfaction with this event. Something about it just doesn't add up

Have you seen richardh's work, it really is something:

https://jtr3d.com/

[Juniper4576]

I agree that it requires a pretty big leap of faith to make all timings work. So much depends on the patrol times and how much of Mitre Sq was actually patrolled. Did the PC only enter Church Passage far enough to just miss the murder in progress? Or at least miss Kate and Jack in the location of her demise? The patrol which resulted in the body's discovery was either more thorough OR the body, or something, could be seen clear enough from Church Passage to warrant investigation. Is there any info regarding lighting in Mitre Sq? Soooo many questions!! Can't get no satisfaction with this event. Something about it just doesn't add up

I read it was the darkest part of the square.

The only real covered approach to get in the square would be from Mitre street, but in all instances your footsteps would of been heard from all directions.

But, then, there is the yard to the left of Kates body...

[Meet Ze Monster]

I agree that it requires a pretty big leap of faith to make all timings work. So much depends on the patrol times and how much of Mitre Sq was actually patrolled. Did the PC only enter Church Passage far enough to just miss the murder in progress? Or at least miss Kate and Jack in the location of her demise? The patrol which resulted in the body's discovery was either more thorough OR the body, or something, could be seen clear enough from Church Passage to warrant investigation. Is there any info regarding lighting in Mitre Sq? Soooo many questions!! Can't get no satisfaction with this event. Something about it just doesn't add up

[Trevor Marriott]

Well, 7 minutes puts the time at 1:37, so yes, to fit it would have to be, which means a murder time of around 1:32 to 1:34, pending on how long you think it takes, 5 to 3 minutes. Lawende would have to be wrong (if the CPC is Eddowes and JtR) as his 5 minutes means the were still in Duke Street until 1:35. Level could be right with this 3 to 4 minutes though. Or they entered another way. It's starting to shed evidence, but only just, so can't exclude it entirely.

-Jeff

Hi Jeff
The more the questions that arise of did the killer have time to do all that he is purported to have done? then the more the accepted timings to show he did are brought into question.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[JeffHamm]

It would have been before Harvey came down Church Passage.

Well, 7 minutes puts the time at 1:37, so yes, to fit it would have to be, which means a murder time of around 1:32 to 1:34, pending on how long you think it takes, 5 to 3 minutes. Lawende would have to be wrong (if the CPC is Eddowes and JtR) as his 5 minutes means the were still in Duke Street until 1:35. Level could be right with this 3 to 4 minutes though. Or they entered another way. It's starting to shed evidence, but only just, so can't exclude it entirely.

-Jeff

[Scott Nelson]

Yah, but to head via St James after PC Harvey has patrolled church passage is to head sort of towards him, and to by pass the closer exit at mitre street.

It would have been before Harvey came down Church Passage.

[DJA]

You have 6 Mitre Street correct. In the front door,out the back door and through the gate.

It is a Goad Insurance Map.

[Juniper4576]

Pretty much.
Look at how quickly he was switched.The day after Nichol's murder,he was at her Inquest.

Revisit Mitre Square and reconsider this thread,if Jack the Ripper was a teaching pathologist residing part time at nights in 6 Mitre Street.

Whats your colour coding Dave and is 6 Mitre Street above the r in Street?

[JeffHamm]

Ok, I've also had a little play with something else. JtR seems to have left, somehow, Mitre Square in the vicinity of PC Harvey's patrol at 1:41. PC Long patrols Goulston street, and at 2:20 he does not see the apron, but when he passes that location again at 2:55 he does. So, based on a 35 minute patrol time, he passed that location earlier at 1:45.

Ok, it's not that far between Mitre Square and Goulston Street. If JtR headed straight there at an average walking speed, it should only take him in the vicinity of 5-7 minutes, pending on the route one chooses. If he did that, then he would arrive at that location around 1:46 - 1:48, just after PC Long's 1:45 patrol. But if so, the apron should have been there at 2:20.

Now, some people argue that Long just missed it during his 2:20 patrol. Others argue JtR didn't go straight to Goulston Street, but when home, and then came back to drop the apron. So, where could he have gone?

Here's what I thought I would do. If PC Long didn't see the apron at 2:20, then JtR has to deposit it sometime between 2:20 (i.e. seconds after Long passes) and 2:55 (seconds before he arrives). Obviously, the two extremes are improbable, but it gives us times to use as limits.

So, to get a rough estimate of areas he could reach, I just measure the distance from Mitre Square to a location, and then from that location to Goulston Street to get the total distance. And if that total distance equals how far one could walk (at 3.1 mph) then it becomes part of a boundary. The Green boundary is the area within which he could travel if he only has from 1:41 to 2:20 to work with (our lower limit). The blue circle is our upper limit (giving him closer to the end of PC Long's 2:20 - 2:55 patrol). The red boundaries are simply steps of 5 minutes, so if he goes home tossed everything and then to Goulston, and does all that in 5 minutes, then it's the tiny ellipse in the centre. If you think he does it in 10 minutes, it's the next bigger red one, and so forth. You can use these to work out different areas based upon how long you think JtR had to be "at home", then subtract that from the time he has.

So, if you think JtR spent at least 15 minutes at home cleaning up, then instead of having 39 minutes up to 74 minutes for travel time, he would now only have 24 minutes to 59 minutes for travel (so round those to 25 and 60), and look at the 5th and 12th red circle. Remember, he doesn't actually have to be on the circle, just within it. Also, since all of these distances are "as the crow flies", and do not follow the twists and turns of the streets, the areas are going to be overestimates, but they can be used as a "rough guide".

In the end, JtR has more than enough time to get quite far away. What is interesting, of course, is if he got that far away, why would he head all the way back and get so close to the crime scene while carrying incriminating evidence? That would be very odd, and if he did that, I would sort of expect that JtR would be of the sort that would inject himself into the investigation at that point. Did he then go to "see what was up" at Mitre Square?

Or, did he spend no more than 15-20 minutes on the street, with the rest of the time back in his bolt hole, cleaning up, etc, placing him inside the 3rd or 4th red ellipse?

These are all unanswerable questions, but it might be of interest to some. Enjoy.

I've marked all the crime scenes (which I'll assume we're all familiar with enough that I don't have to label them), and Goulston Street. Ignore the mark furthest to the east, not sure how that got there, but I must have placed a marker without realizing it.

- Jeff