Stride..a victim?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

The cachous were a bonus.
For the umpteenth time ...... they were for her genetic haemorrhagic condition ..... look at her bottom lip ..... check out the amount of blood lost .....

What difference would a scented lozenge used to sweeten the breath make to a genetic blood vessel disorder?

[Fisherman]

Read the context of the post.

She was hanging around the front door.

The cachous were a bonus.
For the umpteenth time ...... they were for her genetic haemorrhagic condition ..... look at her bottom lip ..... check out the amount of blood lost .....

I have read it. And the furthest I will go is to say that she MAY have had a prearranged meeting.

If you could manage to be a little bit less grumpy, Iīd be ... well, surprised, at least.

[DJA]

Well, the front door to the street we are told was locked....because of Eagle, and Fanny should have seen Liz if she was hanging about there. So should the young couple. I do think your right about a prearranged meeting of sorts, either for work cleaning the club after the meeting, or to meet someone specific.

As mentioned previously,Jack would have exited the club after BS Man left.

Eagle probably spooked him after cutting Stride's throat.

I have absolutely no doubt she was there to meet Jack,who watched precedings from the top windows.Hence the timing.

Doesn't matter what time the pony cart arrived.Could have been full of red herrings for all I care.

As for Liz cleaning the club .....

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Having chosen a site he would then select an opportunistic target and lead them there

Did parcel man lead Stride to Dutfield's Yard?
If yes, why is he standing with her across the road when Smith passes?
What is in the parcel?
At what time does he kill her?
If no, why is Stride with this man?

[DJA]

How is it obvious? The clothing and the cachous and Strides attention to her looks? Or are you thinking of something else?

Read the context of the post.

She was hanging around the front door.

The cachous were a bonus.
For the umpteenth time ...... they were for her genetic haemorrhagic condition ..... look at her bottom lip ..... check out the amount of blood lost .....

[Michael W Richards]

Stride was hanging around the front door.

As Prosector mentioned,Jack might have scoped the premises the previous week as a visitor.

Meeting was obviously prearranged.

Well, the front door to the street we are told was locked....because of Eagle, and Fanny should have seen Liz if she was hanging about there. So should the young couple. I do think your right about a prearranged meeting of sorts, either for work cleaning the club after the meeting, or to meet someone specific.

[rjpalmer]

Daily Telegraph 2 Oct
Louis D: "The gutter of the yard is paved with large stones, and the centre with smaller irregular stones."

Thanks, Joshua.

[Prosector]

I believe that JTR's MO in general was to conduct a thorough recce of the chosen sites days or even weeks in advance and most of them have certain features in common including dim but passable lighting and, I believe, at least two possible exit routes. In the case of Dutfield's Yard one would have been Berner Street itself and the one that I think he used, into the Yard and over the back wall. I think there is no doubt that he was a fit man and capable of that, or of hopping over one or other of the Hanbury Street fences if necessary. Having chosen a site he would then select an opportunistic target and lead them there (except perhaps the last who, I believe, inadvertently let her killer in.

[Fisherman]

Meeting was obviously prearranged.

How is it obvious? The clothing and the cachous and Strides attention to her looks? Or are you thinking of something else?

[DJA]

I'm not saying that the killer couldn't have come from within the club Michael but surely the police would have been remiss not to have checked the members as possibles?

Stride was hanging around the front door.

As Prosector mentioned,Jack might have scoped the premises the previous week as a visitor.

Meeting was obviously prearranged.

[Michael W Richards]

I'm not saying that the killer couldn't have come from within the club Michael but surely the police would have been remiss not to have checked the members as possibles?

Agreed Herlock, but there is mention of a very thorough search of the club, backstage area, top and bottom floors...and all the members in attendance were searched. There was no knife discovered, so, it was either hidden or taken from the scene...if its the second, then the killer would have to have left after 1am. Thats the key takeaway. Fanny is at her door from 12:50 until 1 continuously, she only sees Goldstein. Liz is cut roughly around 12:46-12:56 by Blackwell, so...the killer is likely still there when Goldstein passes around 12:50-55. The slim egress window is from 12:46... if thats the cut time.... to 12:50 when Fanny is back at her door. If the cut is closer to 12:56, then he is still there when Goldstein passes and cannot leave unseen until after 1.

If the knife is hidden, the implication is that the man who hides it is still there being part of the leftovers from the meeting.

Let me ask you....IF the killer is Jack the Ripper...(an outside possibility at best, but for the sake of discussion)...and NOT at the club as a guest or member, then why would he stay after he kills? If he has 5 minutes there while Fanny is at her door until 1, then why doesnt he do more to Liz? We know no-one leaves via that passageway from 12:50 until 1am.

Now add this....4 witnesses say that they were by the dying woman, with others including Louis, at around 12:40-12:45. Now....did this killer just slip into the picture, kill Liz, and leave unseen before those men are gathered? We know Liz is seen at 12:35.

I hope youre beginning to see that there is a high degree of likelihood that the killer wasnt seen on the street by anyone including Fanny. So where did he come from? How is it he is on the scene without being seen? Fanny and James Brown see the young couple, Fanny sees Goldestin...thats all the people seen on that street between 12:35 and 1am. Unless of course the 4 witnesses were correct, and the raeson Fanny didnt see 2 running for help and returning with Spooner is because that happened after Fanny lost sight of Liz and went indoors for a few minutes.

Fanny said she was at her door "nearly the whole time" from 12:35 until 1, and we know she is there from 12:50 to 1 by virtue of her sighting. She also said if anyone had come out from the club "she must have seen them". We also know Fanny does not see Louis arrive, or even approaching, at 1.

Using that framework its easy to see a killer unseen from the street because he is on club property, and that ist possible that Louis lied about when he arrived. Perfectly understandable, and in keeping with the evidence.

Anarchists would not want to be blamed for "nothing".

[Herlock Sholmes]

What we do know is sort of interesting though. There were unused stables at the back of the yard and an office within the same building, if memory serves the lock to that office had been broken. Might there have been a back way out through that office?

It also worth mentioning while Im here that the police searched that club pretty thoroughly, and all the people that were there. I believe some boots were checked for blood traces. Meaning? At least on that night the authorities believed that the killer likely came from that club. I do too.

I'm not saying that the killer couldn't have come from within the club Michael but surely the police would have been remiss not to have checked the members as possibles?

[FrankO]

Thatīs as fair an answer as anybody could ask for, Frank.

Thanks, Christer.

As you know, the suspect I have in mind had his mother staying a stoneīs throw away from Berner Street, and he would likewise have had his old watering holes in this exact vicinity. And it was a Saturday night.
Of course, that plays a role in my thinking; if we reason that the killer would have needed to be tipsy to go for a kill in Dutfieldīs Yard, then what we have is a description of a tipsy man having a physical altercation with Stride some little time before she was killed - and a carman who may have done the rounds in the local pubs. To me, it makes perfect sense, but to anybody who has not seen the light ( ), it could of course be another story.

Looking at things from "your corner", it does make sense and, of course, a tipsy or even drunk Ripper would do the trick and might explain his willingness to strike when & where he did, despite the relative "buzz" around Dutfield's Yard. Even if it wasn't Lechmere.

Thanks, anyway, for your post, it was a refreshing read.

I do my best...

[FrankO]

For what it's worth Frank any doubts that I have are location-based too.

Cheers, Herlock!

[Michael W Richards]

Unfortunately we do not know for sure whether on not there were any means of escape at the bottom of Dutfields Yard. and if there was where was it, and where did it lead to.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

What we do know is sort of interesting though. There were unused stables at the back of the yard and an office within the same building, if memory serves the lock to that office had been broken. Might there have been a back way out through that office?

It also worth mentioning while Im here that the police searched that club pretty thoroughly, and all the people that were there. I believe some boots were checked for blood traces. Meaning? At least on that night the authorities believed that the killer likely came from that club. I do too.