Double Event Timeline

[Malcolm X]

there's nothing that we're missing, because years ago when we looked at this murder in great detail, we were as per now..... up in the air ! no conclusion either way, because added to this we also have M.Eagle and that woman that lived up the road that saw nothing either.....we argued about this on two different forums.

now this tells you that Stride either walked off, or went right inside the yard and also, these other idiots had walked off as well, because this area after BS/ Schwartz, went totally quiet until the body was discovered.

1.....Stride did not walk away, to return later, she was there for the long haul!
2....the other blokes walked off
3.....she disapeared into the yard
thus, this area went quiet and she wasn't seen

JTR either returned later, saw her whilst spying the area but not as BS, or was killed from someone INSIDE the club....................... oh Dear !

Stride could also have been killed soon after Schwartz was chased off, this means that he would have got his times wrong and much closer to 1am.

it seems most likely that JTR chose this location to kill beforehand, he failed with regards to luring away Stride and decided to quickly kill her instead, unfortunately for him, he waited far too long, just before the cart returned home !

if he was still in that yard, he must've almost Sh***** himself

if so, he handled himself very well, especially considering that he killed again later on !!!!

now lets look at BS.... he looks drunk, plus he has not stalked her beforehand, he's not even looked behind him, or checked ahead at the crossing..... he has also broken my one golden rule, he has physically assulted her at the same moment that he went up to her !

no, this is not JTR, too careless, he's a drunk on his way home.

[lynn cates]

answer me these questions three

Hello Ruby. Very well, before 12.45.

So he was in the yard hiding at 12.40 when Eagle was about? OK, I can accept that. And Eagle never saw him because it was dark.

Three quick questions then.

1. Would he be apprehensive about Rombro (Kranz) working in the back office? (ie, going out suddenly)

2. Would he be apprehensive about the side door? (ie, someone exiting suddenly)

3. Was he in the yard around 12.15 when Wess was in the yard?

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

Hello Ruby. Fair enough. But when did he enter the yard?

Before BS man came along. It would make sense for Jack to prefer to
call Liz into the yard from the cover of darkness, rather than be seen by witnesses approaching her in the street. In the event, I think that she went into the yard for the reasons already given, when BS and pipeman had gone.

[lynn cates]

delusions

Hello Jon.

"His wife of 21 years did tell the police that she did not think Joseph would injure anyone but her."

Quite right--OR if he were delusional and THOUGHT it were her. Recall that, at the apex of his most violent cycles, he was extremely violent and did not know what he was doing.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

sui generis

Hello David. Thanks.

In fact, JI is the only contemporary suspect who was caught strangling a woman and wandering about with a ground down butcher's knife.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

timing

Hello Ruby. Fair enough. But when did he enter the yard?

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

I'll only strangle her...

His wife of 21 years did tell the police that she did not think Joseph would injure anyone but her.

Like all good husbands...




Greg

[Jon Guy]

Hello David.

"Not sure Isenchmid would have been a strangler, if a murderer. It's all about knife and thundering threats with him."

Umm? Actually, I am more keen on his strangling than his knife work. Did you not read his wife's story that he tried to strangle her and he would have succeeded had not a neighbour intervened?

Cheers.
LC

His wife of 21 years did tell the police that she did not think Joseph would injure anyone but her.

[DVV]

Hello David.

"Not sure Isenchmid would have been a strangler, if a murderer. It's all about knife and thundering threats with him."

Umm? Actually, I am more keen on his strangling than his knife work. Did you not read his wife's story that he tried to strangle her and he would have succeeded had not a neighbour intervened?

Cheers.
LC

Yes, she wanted to get rid of him, it seems. Otherwise, his obsession is about knife and butchery. But if the story is true, sure you have a point.

[Malcolm X]

from years ago, i dont recall anyone being in the yard between BS and the body being discovered, only a few people walking by.

but i cant find out quickly, so i cant help you i'm afraid.

[Malcolm X]

Lynn -I believe that I read a witness statement from someone 'taking air' in the yard, to the effect that it was so pitch black that he had to 'feel his way
along the walls' to find the door back into the club. Diemshitz couldn't see the body on the ground (nor a man leaving) until he climbed down from his cart and moved forward on foot.

Therefore, a man standing silently in the shadows further back into the yard, could not have been seen.

yes but did JTR leg it the moment that he heard the cart, because that makes one hell of a noise.

she had only just died, but this is the worst place to mutilate, so it's very hard to tell if he was still there, maybe he was trapped inside because he didn't think the cart was related to Dutfields and couldn't shoot out in time.

so he backed off into the rear of the yard and quickly left after Diem went inside.

yes why not, but none of this effects my theory, it just shows that JTR maybe waited too long to kill her

[Rubyretro]

Lynn -I believe that I read a witness statement from someone 'taking air' in the yard, to the effect that it was so pitch black that he had to 'feel his way
along the walls' to find the door back into the club. Diemshitz couldn't see the body on the ground (nor a man leaving) until he climbed down from his cart and moved forward on foot.

Therefore, a man standing silently in the shadows further back into the yard, could not have been seen.

[lynn cates]

timing

Hello Ruby. If Liz's assailant were already in the yard by 12.45, it is a wonder that he were not spotted. Recall that 2 club members were in the yard just previous to that and they reported no one in the yard.

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

Stride was attacked earlier on.... outside or close to outside, so she might have thought that it was safer to wait quietly by the door instead, thus hiding herself and attracting no more trouble[/QUOTE

I think that's not bad, Malcolm...I never thought of that, but it makes some sense.

If Liz was soliciting for members of that club, had done so before, and knew that prospective clients would come out of that side door to find her discreetly in the dark...well she might have hidden herself in the shadows after being attacked by BS, who clearly wanted to pull her away from the yard.

Effectively, I have wondered before if Jack wasn't already in the yard when Schwartz passed.

I don't think that Jack rushed at her though ! He just needed to step up quietly, ask her a question, and then take her by surprise.

I've always thought that she bought the cachous herself to take away the horrible taste of unwashed working men's 'tackle'. It would make sense that
she'd have them in her hand already prepared, so she wouldn't have to fish about in the pitch black, if she were already in the yard when approached
(she then clenched her fist around them by reflex when attacked).

[lynn cates]

dark

Hello Malcolm.

"no, he already knew that she was there, he shot around the corner and grabbed her, she was already in the yard, in the shadows and by the door."

Then how could he see her? Recall it was 18 feet to the side door and the yard was quite dark. And how did he know that she was there if he could not see her?

Cheers.
LC