Double Event Timeline

[curious4]

Timeline Stride

Hello all,

Getting back to the timeline, I have been pondering, in my quiet way. Why were the cachous still in Lizīs hand when she was found? If she was pulled into the street and thrown to the ground, wouldnīt she have dropped them? If you are pushed over I would have thought that you would automatically put out your hands to break your fall. Also the observation that the man who pushed her was walking as though drunk. Somehow I donīt picture Jack as staggering drunk while doing his "work". Did the killer first pull her into the street and throw her down and then drag her into the yard? In the other killings it appears that the victim was first lured into a quiet place and then quickly subdued.

As there is a 15 minute window, is it possible that Liz picked herself (and cachous (or cachoux) up from the ground, escaped from the drunk and was killed by someone else? Why was she waiting in the doorway in the first place? Did she have an escort who asked her to wait while he visited the facilities/fetched his shiny knife from a hiding place in Dutfields Yard, who then came up from behind and pulled/lured her in?

Of course, this means that Schwartz didnīt see the killer and that the pipeman wasnīt involved.....

Donīt think it was a domestic, the police investigated the possibility very thoroughly at the time and would, I think, have been very happy if the double event had been a single.

[Malcolm X]

"Anyhow, with respect to the size. Here's a challenge for you.
Take an ordinary piece of chalk and write those precise words BUT, make sure any capital letters you use are ONLY 3/4 inch tall, and the rest of the letters are sized accordingly.
(Good luck at making it legible)

Then step back and see if you can easily read it as you are walking past."

You must also bear in mind that passers by would not be walking flush to the entrance, due to the recessess.

Monty

plus on damp rough painted brick, the letters would be all broken up, you'd have to go over them a few times, it would be quite hard work...... were the bricks painted gloss or matt black ?

this tells you a few things:-

JTR was patient, calm and in no mad rush to get out of there ! plus finally, definitely not stupid.

where did he get the chalk from, because he definitely didn't find it lieing in the gutter on a damp and pitch black evening....

anyway, that's enough for now

[Wickerman]

Thankyou for asking that Luke, in the course of seeking a variety of sources for you I came across an answer to one of the dimension questions.

First, Halse spoke those words at the Inquest..

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/st._james_gazette/881012.html?printer=true

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_telegraph/dt881012.html

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_news/18881012.html

And in the last source, the location of the graffito is described as:

"The bricks are painted black up to about four feet high, like a dado, and above that are white."

I notice on the photo I showed the upper height to have been limited by a brick edge at 49.5 inch, which tells me I had read this above statement by Halse.
Thankyou for asking that Luke.

Regards, Jon S.

[Luke111]

Det. Halse told us:
"There were three lines of writing in a good schoolboys round hand. The size of the capital letters would be about 3/4 in, and the other letters were in proportion"

Regards, Jon S.

Just wondering where this is from? An interview? If so could you post a link / the source?
Thanks

[RedBundy13]

I do recall the size & number of bricks had something to do with it. This may sound weird to you but back in the late 90's Bob Hinton thought to employ the size of a standard house brick & cement line to create a mock-up of Kelly's window in Millers Court, to see if her door lock was reachable through the window, etc.

.

I was wondering that too Wick, what did he come up with when trying to find out if someone could reach the door from the window? To me that looked like a heck of a reach but I dont have any dimensions to go off of so what do I know? Could it have been done from that window? Could someone have reached the door or was it too far?

[RedBundy13]

3/4"

Yes I will try that but I think I already know the conclusion? I had heard that before, that the writting was that small(3/4") but I wasn't sure if that was correct, it seemed really small to be written on such a coarse object. My guess would be that it would actually be rather difficult to actually write that small. Meaning whoever wrote it must have made a conscious effort to write that small. When I use chalk with my daughter and I want to write small its usually maybe 2-2.5" at the smallest.
In any case I am going to try and write that at 3/4" just to get an idea of what it looked like. Thanks for the advice guys.

[Stephen Thomas]

P.S. now if Halse actually meant 3 - 4 inch tall, the story is completely different.

Ahh, shades of Spinal Tap. The trouble with that idea (not that I think you're seriously suggesting it) is that if the letters were so big, the message could not have been written where we are told it was found.

[Wickerman]

Delete

[Steven Russell]

P.S. now if Halse actually meant 3 - 4 inch tall, the story is completely different.

I think you have something here, Jon.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Monty]

"Anyhow, with respect to the size. Here's a challenge for you.
Take an ordinary piece of chalk and write those precise words BUT, make sure any capital letters you use are ONLY 3/4 inch tall, and the rest of the letters are sized accordingly.
(Good luck at making it legible)

Then step back and see if you can easily read it as you are walking past."

You must also bear in mind that passers by would not be walking flush to the entrance, due to the recessess.

Monty

[Wickerman]

Hi Red.
I put the dimensions on that pic years ago, but I don't recall what the conversation was which promted me to do that.

I do recall the size & number of bricks had something to do with it. This may sound weird to you but back in the late 90's Bob Hinton thought to employ the size of a standard house brick & cement line to create a mock-up of Kelly's window in Millers Court, to see if her door lock was reachable through the window, etc.
I seem to think that I used this same logic to place dimensions on that photo.

Anyhow, with respect to the size. Here's a challenge for you.
Take an ordinary piece of chalk and write those precise words BUT, make sure any capital letters you use are ONLY 3/4 inch tall, and the rest of the letters are sized accordingly.
(Good luck at making it legible)

Then step back and see if you can easily read it as you are walking past.

Regards, Jon S.
P.S. now if Halse actually meant 3 - 4 inch tall, the story is completely different.

[RedBundy13]

easily seen

I see now what people are saying. That would have been about impossible to miss. Anyone who would have walked by there should have seen it. It showed plain as day, right out into the street. weird

[RedBundy13]

Thanks for the replys, that pic is great! It puts it all into perspective.
Maybe it shows where a 6' tall man would be when he hunched over to write on the jamb? The dimensions that is and why they might be there...

[Wickerman]

I was not aware the location was ever in dispute, because according to a memo from Warren to Matthews...

"...There were several police around the spot when I arrived, both Metropolitan and City. The writing was on the jamb of the open archway or doorway visible to anybody in the street and could not be covered up without danger of the covering being torn off at once....."

I emphasize the stated location.



Pay no attention to the dimensions, I cannot recall why they were shown.

Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

As for where they were placed, some say on the entryway, others say on the wall next to the staircase, as suggested by the comment that the graffiti would have been rubbed by the shoulders of those walking down. It was white chalk on black dado and could not have been missed by anyone in the building arriving home, so had been written very shortly before it's discovery.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott