Double Event Timeline

[lynn cates]

plus ultra

Hello Dave. Well, amongst a plethora of other things. Most troubling--Kate's early release from Mile End Casual Ward. Also, the date on the pawn ticket for boots. (I could go on and on.)

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Kate

I heard she had been locked up at Bishopsgate-street on Saturday afternoon. An old woman who works in then lane told me she saw her in the hands of the police.

But she wasn't arrested until 8.30pm...I assume this is what you mean Lynn?

Dave

[lynn cates]

John Kelly

Hello MB. Well, I can't speak for others, but my take is that a string of coincidences is assumed by a good many theorisers.

But that does not bother me HALF so much as John's testimony under oath. Read it lately?

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

Hi Lynn,

Coincidentally, I have been pondering the opposite lately: if the killer who had had success before in Buck's Row and Hanbury St was not in Berner St and therefore did not know of a murder there when he entered Mitre Square to murder Eddowes, what reason did he have for choosing a City location this time? Wasn't it lucky he didn't decide to trawl for victims along the Commercial Road, for instance, where all the action would have been?

It seems to me that he had more reason to head for Aldgate if he knew the Met would be buzzing around in the wake of Stride's body being discovered. Heading into City territory, where he had not previously tried his luck and where nobody would be expecting him to strike (including Eddowes it would seem), appears to have served him well enough.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Folks ..i have a question , is it the assumption of most, that it was pure coincidence that Catherine gave her name as Mary Ann Kelly at the police station , and was it also just coincidence or unbelievable luck on behalf of the killer that he was able to murder Catherine Eddows , tear hear apart , remove her organs , in the darkest corner of the square , the second PC watkins left the square , then make a clean escape only seconds before PC watkins returned 15 mins later , bearing in mind a doctor stated the mutilations on the body would have taken at least 20 minutes to perform ? was he really the most lucky killer of all time ? its a shame the lottery wasn't around then , he would have won every week

regards
moonbegger

[lynn cates]

gin

Hello Richard. You refer to the Blenkingsop (sp?) affair? Hmm, not too bad.

Glad I'm not the only bloke who is suspicious that someone spent about a shilling on Kate's gin.

Cheers.
LC

[richardnunweek]

Hi Lynn.
If we apply logical thinking we can put Kate's assailant as the person that may have bought her drinks, and as you rightly suggest it may have been common knowledge that early releases were policy.
We could have a scenario, where Kate turns left out of the police station[ the opposite direction] because she see's her drinks supplier waiting close by, they then walk in the direction of Mitre square,.
If one takes a view that en-route a plain clothes officer, passes by on his way to the nick, and somewhat suspicious, decides to follow the couple, however loses sight of them in Church passage,proceeding then to the night watchman in orange place, and speaking the words 'Have you seen a man and woman pass this way?
Was this the city police officer near Mitre square, that had a sighting of the killer?
It fits the puzzle nicely, but again speculation.
Regards Richard.

[lynn cates]

early release

Hello Caroline. I have often wondered whether the bloke who bought Kate's drinks were not her eventual assailant? If she's D & D, she will be put in gaol, and the rules in the City are commodious to an early release--whist it's nice and dark.

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

Hello Mic. Thanks for that.

Perhaps you have a theory about something that has always puzzled me. Given the usual take on the "Double Event," and given the assailant lived near Goulston st., and given that--for whatever reason--he chose Berner st for a murder, why (given he was disturbed and was nondum satiatus) did he head for Aldgate first? Why not go east and perhaps north, where he had had success before? Why would the murderer travel further from home in such a frustrated, excited condition?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Coincidentally, I have been pondering the opposite lately: if the killer who had had success before in Buck's Row and Hanbury St was not in Berner St and therefore did not know of a murder there when he entered Mitre Square to murder Eddowes, what reason did he have for choosing a City location this time? Wasn't it lucky he didn't decide to trawl for victims along the Commercial Road, for instance, where all the action would have been?

It seems to me that he had more reason to head for Aldgate if he knew the Met would be buzzing around in the wake of Stride's body being discovered. Heading into City territory, where he had not previously tried his luck and where nobody would be expecting him to strike (including Eddowes it would seem), appears to have served him well enough.

Love,

Caz
X

[harry]

Not to be taken too seriously,but in considering the apron piece as menstrual protection,wouldn't it's size depend on rate and volume of flow,and size of structure?

[moonbegger]

Hi Folks , i still find it hard to beleive that the writer of the GSG , being the killer, or accomplice would have stopped off in Goulston street in heat of a manhunt to scribble down a message on a wall , was he really the most lucky killer ever to live , or as is my assumption was the GSG was done a few hours before the double event, And that maybe the apron was thrown down beneath it on the way back from the Eddows murder with the sole reason being to authenticate it "what other reason would the killer have for throwing away evidence , that he didnt really need to throw away ? " bearing in mind the assumption of many [ Not Me ] that the killer wrote or didnt write the message whilst having in possesion a lot more blood and gore than Cathy's apron , just a thought

moonbegger

[lynn cates]

question

Hello Mic. Thanks for that.

Perhaps you have a theory about something that has always puzzled me. Given the usual take on the "Double Event," and given the assailant lived near Goulston st., and given that--for whatever reason--he chose Berner st for a murder, why (given he was disturbed and was nondum satiatus) did he head for Aldgate first? Why not go east and perhaps north, where he had had success before? Why would the murderer travel further from home in such a frustrated, excited condition?

Cheers.
LC

[mic_ads]

To add to the discussion about the double event, I discovered some significant evidence through a study I finished towards the end of 2011.

Catherine Eddowes and Elizabeth Stride forms part of a crime series of 8 homicide victims.

For further detail, you can link to this thread:
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...445#post211445

There was a general direction of travel of the offender from the murder of Elizabeth Stride to the murder of Catherine Eddowes, followed by a direction of travel to the location of a cut piece of apron.◦

After reviewing the facts about the apron piece, I considered it as a crime scene location, but I am aware that Trevor Marriot put forward a theory disputing its significance by considering this apron piece as a sanitary product used by Catherine Eddowes. In the absence of any other information, this could be considered a plausible theory, but the items found on Catherine’s body included 12 pieces of white rag. The cutting of her own apron for use as a sanitary product seems less likely when she had suitable items on her person. A further point is that the apron was described as cut, not torn. No knife or bladed article was listed in her possessions.

The finding of the stained apron piece in Goulston Street on the same night Catherine Eddowes was killed is considered as a crime scene characteristic of her homicide. This piece of apron was found in Goulston Street, .23 miles away in a north-easterly direction (N 36°E) from the location of the body in Mitre Square.

If this general direction of travel (Mitre Square to Goulston Street) is extrapolated, it indicates a direction of travel towards the general area where a number of the victims were known to reside at the time of their death.

In addition to this, there is a question over whether JtR had an anatomical or medical knowledge that specifically links back to the timelime of the double event; it appears that there is a ten minute window where Eddowes is murdered and mutilated.

Considered the context of this attack, the offender has not had hours or days to mutilate the body, nor has he had privacy to do this. This attack was done at night where street lighting was not what it is today, so he was working at night in limited light, in a public location with limited time and able to mutilate the abdominal cavity and sexual organs to the extent recorded.

I would submit there the double event adds support to the arguement that the offender displayed some degree of anatomical knowledge.

the whole point of research - to explore, share and discuss

[Monty]

Oh I've seen it all right.

There was a period, at the turn of the last century, when this field held some brilliant minds.

It still does, however it seems they do not have the drive to wade through the mire anymore.

Even Trevor Marriott no longer posts as often.

Monty

[The Good Michael]

Amateur profilers, whose training lasts for an hour every Friday night on Fox, are now confusing personal opinion with fact.

Then again, that's how its ever been.

I think it's worse now. The delusional are becoming louder, and the CSI offspring attach themselves like leeches to them. Just look at the Fleming stuff... er, don't.

Mike

[lynn cates]

profiling

Hello Michael, Neil. Wish profiling had never begun. I still prefer to look at cuts, bruises, body placements, etc.

Cheers.
LC