What 5 Questions Would You Like Answered?

[Cogidubnus]

Nautical bias

"What would 'hard labor' for a woman have been?"

Likely oakum picking.

Or the treadmill (in extreme cases), knitting stockings for the military or sewing...but yes, since 21st October 1805 I'd guess Oakum picking would be a favourite!

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Dave. Thanks.

"it has to be said, that. . . Lynn is above all else a gentleman!"

And that is why my wife is divorcing me. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

She is? She's clearly a lady of very poor taste, (she's not been in touch with me at all!).

Every good wish

Dave

[curious]

She is? She's clearly a lady of very poor taste, (she's not been in touch with me at all!).

Every good wish

Dave

I don't know. Being used in one too many Jack the Ripper experiments would do that for most women, I suspect.

[lynn cates]

Take the taste test.

Hello Dave. Thanks.

"She's clearly a lady of very poor taste"

You've tasted her, then? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

duty

Hello Velma. Thanks.

Yes, funny you should mention that. I ask her to lie in the floor with knees drawn up, I take measurements, etc.

All duty, you know.

Cheers.
LC

[C. F. Leon]

Hello Velma. Thanks.

Yes, funny you should mention that. I ask her to lie in the floor with knees drawn up, I take measurements, etc.

All duty, you know.

Cheers.
LC

In a French maid's outfit?

Mike Covell mentioned having used his wife for similiar research.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

What a world!

Hello Velma. Thanks.

Yes, funny you should mention that. I ask her to lie in the floor with knees drawn up, I take measurements, etc.

All duty, you know.

Cheers.
LC

I've got about a 20 min timelimit before I'm supposed to stop. That goes for pretty much anything I'm interested in. Well me talking about it anyways. I pay little heed. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Maybe I should get a skull to talk to about my interests and thoughts. Watsons are in short supply.

[lynn cates]

thinking

Hello CFL. Thanks.

I suppose Mike and I think alike.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

elementary

Hello DLDW. Thanks.

"Watsons are in short supply."

Yes. Elementary. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

What if Eddowes was an occasional solicitor and upon returning from a failed hopping excursion she was how you say sent out to get money? Hence the drink. Kelly gave her money for drink so it would be easier to deal with. She gets drunk and winds up in jail. Worried about being late and broke she goes on the hunt so she isn't empty-handed upon seeing Kelly again. Something I find funny is that everyone assumes Kidney was abussive but Kelly is a gentle creature. I wonder if it isn't maybe the other way around? Just prattling on.

I think this is something like the most plausible explanation of events.

Prostitution was an accepted form of keeping your head above water in the East End. And, on this basis, they were mainly occasional prostitutes, i.e. when necessity demanded it.

Kelly's boots had been pawned, so clearly they had few options in terms of income.

I believe many of these women would have plied their trade in pubs, and so possibly needed money for at least the first drink. I'd imagine that Eddowes had the bare minimum on her when she left Kelly and the idea was to earn some money.

Kelly, having pawned his boots, wasn't going to best pleased to hear Eddowes had pissed all the earnings up against the wall.

I would imagine it's as simpel as the above or something like it.

And, yes, she probably chanced her arm again to return home with something for a peace offering.

[Observer]

Could't have put it any better Fleetwood Mac.

Good common sense. As simple as that.

I believe I'm correct in stating that you do not favour any particular suspect to the extent that you would bend and manipulate the facts we have at our disposal regarding The Whitechapel Murders? I'm of the same ilk.

I believe for this very reason we have an advantage over the so called "open minded" poster's particularly those with multiple suspects in mind.

Here is an example of the thought processes required to support the notion that Kate Eddowes was not soliciting on the night of her murder.


In short, we have a poster who assumes that upon release from the cells at Bishopgate Street nick.

a) Kate Eddowes needed a wee wee

b) She would have been hungry.

Not unreasonable by any means. What is unreasonable, is to use those two possible assumptions to suggest that Eddowes would favour eating and urinating over soliciting.

Remember, it was a full 45 minutes between Eddowes being released and being found dead. How long would it take to take a leak? Three four minutes. That's it, she comes out of the cells, removes to one of the many little side streets in the area, has a leak, and it's 1:10 a.m. at the latest.

How does this action prohibit her from soliciting?

Ok she's hungry. Time to eat. Our poster must assume she has money, for how could she pay for food?

I, like you, assume that any money Eddowes possessed was used obtaining drink during the afternoon and early evening prior to her arrest.

However, I'll agree, for a while, that she was hungry, but I'd say penniless. How best to earn some money in order to eat? Solicitation? I'd have thought so.

However

Had she eaten just prior to her death? It doesn't appear so.

Dr Gordon Frederick Brown

"I removed the content of the stomach and placed it in a jar for further examination. There seemed very little in it in the way of food or fluid, but from the cut end partly digested farinaceous food escaped."

Very little food or fluid, partly digested from the cut end. From the duodenum? That is on the way out of the stomach? This would suggest to me that Eddowes had eaten some hours prior to her death.

However, let's assume Eddowes did have money, and was hungry, and did seek out a refreshment stall. If my assumption regarding when she had last eaten is correct, then it's clear that she didn't make it to said stall. Surely, the food in her stomach would not have been in the condition as described by Doctor Brown, had she had just eaten.

To reiterate, she might well have needed a hit and a miss after she was released from the cells, but this action would not have prevented her from soliciting. Hungry, and went looking for food at the expense of soliciting? I believe not.

As you imply, Kate Eddowes released from the cells, spent up, unwilling to seek out John Kelly due to

a) The late hour

b) She had no money for a bed

c) The possibility that Kelly would not be too pleased that he had missed out on a piss up.

What to do? Earn some money by prostitution? Of course.

Speculation of course, but within the bounds of reality I'd like to believe.

Regards

Observer

[Bridewell]

And she gave up a splendid bordello in France to return to Whitechapel?

Did she?

[Observer]

And just as a little fillip. A poster asked, I forget who, if there were any pointers linking Eddowes and prostitution.

It's not much, and from a newspaper, I know I know, but.

The Morning News 4th Oct 1888

"Nobody, however, heard the faintest indication of a struggle going on. It seems that the particular corner of Mitre-square in which the body of the woman was found has long had an evil reputation.
Said a man whose occupation for many years has thoroughly familiarized him with the locality and all that has gone on in it, "I have often heard the policeman who went this beat regularly for sixteen years say that that was a well-known resort, and from my own knowledge it is so.

And of course we have Levy's observance

"Look there, I don't like going home by myself when I see those characters about,"

[Fisherman]

The mere fact that she did not head for home, but instead towards an area known to be a prostitution area would seem to imply that she had solicitation on her mind.
A leak and a snack could be procured on her way home, if that was her sole aim - at least one must assume so.
Regardless of her mindset that night, one must admit that heading for home was not her top priority. Taken together with her financial situation and the Church Row sighting, prostitution must be a very useful bid.

All the best,
Fisherman

[curious4]

Hello,

She did rather push to be released, though. It would have made more sense for her to stay where she was until morning. Roof over her head, possibly a cup of tea and slice of bread in the morning. Does look as though she had a rendezvous. Foolish, with a killer around, unless she completely trusted the person she was to meet.

Cheers,
C4