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  • Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
    "what should the next list be? any suggestions anyone.. let’s pick a genre... and please folks keep the lists coming... I know I for one am learning quite a bit and I hope others are as well."

    I agree, it has been interesting to see what movies other people really rate.

    Re what the next list could be, we could do it by genres, or we could take an interesting detour.

    How about the following?

    1. Those movies that are guilty pleasures, largely devoid of any artistic or acting merit, but we love them anyway (Showgirls anyone?)

    2. Those movies that are just so twisted and totally barking that we watch them with our mouths open, and at the end ask ourselves what the hell have we just watched.
    Guilty pleasures eh? this could go few ways...there are those movies that are " so bad they are good" or...just really low brow. I have several of both...unlike a lot of "film buffs" I really like a lot of garbage as well ( I hate the film snobs who feel they are too smart of sophisticated for crap films... they miss out on all the fun in life)—again.. as all my other lists,. They are not in any order

    1- The Love Butcher- this is about as bad as bad horror can get.. but yet there is a charm to this film that just defies logic…a favorite of my group of friends.. a film we affectionately call “ The Citizen Kane of Crap”
    2- Night Patrol- this film is about as low-brow as you can get…it’s cheap, vulgar, crude, and stars the Unknown Comic (remember him??) yet… it makes me laugh like an idiot.. .which I realize I must be to love this film.
    3- Grunt the Wrestling Movie- Ok.. here is the deal.. I AM NOT EVEN A FAN OF WRESTLING!!! But this odd little gem is just so…..I don’t know what, I love it!!
    4- Spice World- I mentioned this in my list of films starring musicians… it’s great that the Spice Girls seemed to be in on the joke that the Spice Girls were a joke!! Fun film
    5- Just about ANY low budget Sci-Fi of the 50’s….Cheaper the better!!!
    6- Just about ANY low budget Horror film or if the 1930’s and 1940’s…. poverty row quickies were such a hoot!
    7- Death Race 2000- Now I know I’m can’t be the only one with this on the list!!
    8- Ishtar- I have said it before, and I’ll say it again….all the people who bash this film never actually saw it.. it’s kinda funny, but it was “chic” to make fun of this film, so everyone did
    9- Santa Claus Conquers the Martians (in honor of the season)
    10- All of the Bulldog Drummond and Boston Blackie movies of 1930’s-1950’s ( the Bulldog films of the 60’s were eh.. ok at best)

    There are so many more but this is just off the top of my head

    Steadmund Brand
    "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

    Comment


    • Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
      "what should the next list be? any suggestions anyone.. let’s pick a genre... and please folks keep the lists coming... I know I for one am learning quite a bit and I hope others are as well."

      I agree, it has been interesting to see what movies other people really rate.

      Re what the next list could be, we could do it by genres, or we could take an interesting detour.

      How about the following?

      1. Those movies that are guilty pleasures, largely devoid of any artistic or acting merit, but we love them anyway (Showgirls anyone?)

      2. Those movies that are just so twisted and totally barking that we watch them with our mouths open, and at the end ask ourselves what the hell have we just watched.
      Barking mad:

      Naked lunch
      Sante Sangre
      12 monkeys (or brazil -take your pick for Gilliam madness)
      Gothic
      Company of wolves

      Comment


      • Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
        "what should the next list be? any suggestions anyone.. let’s pick a genre... and please folks keep the lists coming... I know I for one am learning quite a bit and I hope others are as well."

        I agree, it has been interesting to see what movies other people really rate.

        Re what the next list could be, we could do it by genres, or we could take an interesting detour.

        How about the following?

        1. Those movies that are guilty pleasures, largely devoid of any artistic or acting merit, but we love them anyway (Showgirls anyone?)

        2. Those movies that are just so twisted and totally barking that we watch them with our mouths open, and at the end ask ourselves what the hell have we just watched.
        Pauline Kael (in one of her books of movie critiques) had a list of films she liked to see despite serious flaws. One was the last Nelson Eddy - Jeanette MacDonald movie, "I Married An Angel", which most critics panned.

        If I had to think about it, I'd start my list of "Guilty Pleasures" with my all time favorite:

        Plan Nine From Outer Space (YEAH ED WOOD!!!)

        I wrote a critique about it on the IMDb website. Horribly made, it actually has merit. I'm not the first to notice this, but Wood was one of these hopeless incompetents with a brain. He was "smart" at finding short term solutions for serious production problems, but not "smart" enough to see that the problem would haunt the finished product. But he was smart about what his target was about. "Plan Nine" (believe it or not) is serious about the dangers of mankind playing around with nuclear warfare when it is not ethically or intellectually smart enough to realize the dangers. It is there in the finished film, but because of the production crap we are left laughing ourselves silly about film flaws (Bela Lugosi dying during the filming, and being replaced by Wood's dentist in long shot, holding a "cape" over his face) and not noting what the film theme is about. Also Wood tended to see in flashes points that were obscure to most of us. One of the space aliens mentions God, and the earthlings question him mentioning God. "Do you think you're the only creatures that believe in God?", the alien asks, equally incredulously. Wood has the alien space Captain assisted by one fellow alien, a woman who is an officer (something not usually done in regular science fiction stories, where the woman was usually a civilian, or civilian employee - as in "The Thing"). But at the same time stereotypical roles are maintained - the alien female lieutenant has (among her duties) getting her Captain coffee (or whatever he drinks). Finally, it turns out that the aliens can be as clumsy in their own way with equiptment (a monster that goes haywire, the spaceship that crashes and blows up in the end) as the earthlings. Confused, messy, and unintentionally humorous in dialog ("Inspector Henderson has been murdered, and somebody has done it!" - really big comment there), it deserves it's ribbing, but for his flashes of insight Wood deservedly is the best remembered of the worst film makers of history.

        Comment


        • I should list some other Guilty Pleasures.

          Beat the Devil
          The Big Store
          A Countess From Hong Kong
          Virginia City
          Wilson
          Dark Command
          Jezebel
          The Toast of New York
          Swingtime (yeah, I know it I put it with favorite musicals - it's on both lists*)
          The Seven Year Itch

          You'll notice all these were major studio releases (even Dark Command was a major release at Republic, having John Wayne and Walter Pidgeon in the lead roles). The fact was all of them have serious merit due to casts, production values, sometimes directors, and above average scripts But that doesn't shield serious flaws in al of them. Fascinating to watch (even "Wilson", Daryl Zanuck's 1944 treatment of the 28th President with Alexander Knox in a first rate performance) they all are hideous in part (Wilson's one sided neutrality, and his bigotry towards African-Americans, are neatly not mentioned). "The Toast of New York" is one of two films starring Edward Arnold (here as robber baron Jim Fisk) and Francis Farmer as his mistress. It is well acted (especially by Arnold, Farmer, and Cary Grant) and a good watch of a film, but as history it's mangled. Fisk's real partner and crony, Jay Gould, never appears (Donald Meek does as Daniel Drew; and Clarence Kolb as Commodore Vanderbilt). "The Seven Year Itch" has plenty of eye candy (as Billy Wilder intended) with Marilyn Monroe, and Tom Ewell allows us a rare glimpse at an actual Broadway originated performance. But the 1950s sex romp now seems so dated. Yeah, I know it has Marilyn's iconic image of standing over the grating above the subway and her skirts rising - actually the camera concentrates on her lower legs and feet in the movie, not in the production still. But that was just one moment of the film. "Virginia City" has a plot confusion that no western or other Civil War epic ever did - in the end, on the issue of the fate of a valuable treasure of stolen silver from the Comstock Lode, the one actually "good guy" defending the Federal Government's right to this silver is Douglas Dumbrille, a cavalry colonel who arrests Errol Flynn for treason for stealing it! The other two male leads (Confederate Randolph Scott and Humphrey Bogart in his worst foreign voice performance as a half Mexican bandit) are both dead at this point. Dumbrille, usually playing greedy or evil villains here happens to represent law and order! Maybe another actor in the role, like Lewis Stone, could have registered more regret about the sad duty and carried it off better, but it's Dumbrille.

          *As for Swing Time - the fly in the film is Victor Moore, whom I normally like in films as a sweet little man. Unfortunately his character in this film is a pest who is close to fellow gambler Fred Astaire, and keeps fouling things up for Astaire. After a peculiarly bad foul-up, which forces Astaire to lose Ginger Rogers towards the end, as well as control of a nightclub, Moore walks over to Astaire and says, "Don't worry "Lucky" [Astaire's film nickname.], you still have me!" At this point I would have screamed for Moore to go away and never return. Not here though.

          Comment


          • Westerns, "Indians, they've been following us for three days", and you are just mentioning this now?
            But the classics, True Grit, The Searchers, El Dorado, etc.
            all the best.

            Comment


            • flesh and blood

              Hello Jeff. Your post about Edward D. Wood Jr. makes "flesh and blood" observations. And I think you have plenty of both. (heh-heh)

              Cheers.
              LC

              Comment


              • I will leave "Plan 9 From Outer Space" out of my list, because I really think it stands alone unchallenged as a minor masterpiece of sorts.
                Mayerling has pretty much nailed the strange beauty and warmth of the film.

                Totally Barking

                1. Audition
                A Japanese widowers attempts to re-enter the world of dating, with some of the most shocking, and jaw dropping consequences ever committed to celluloid
                The really scary thing is that it stays just the right side of reality without ever slipping into parody.

                2. Eraserhead
                I still remember staggering from the cinema after having seen David Lynch's first feature film totally unsure of what I had seen and whether it was any good or not. I bought it on DVD and still haven't had the guts to watch it again.

                3. Miracle Mile
                This is a love story that looks as if it will be interrupted by the landing of nuclear missiles.
                Two really nice people meet, fall in love and then have to deal with all kinds of weird stuff.
                If you have ever seen the movie, like me you will probably wonder how the hell the director managed to get that ending approved by studio executives.

                4. The Rapture
                Written and directed by Michael Tolkin (who he?), this tells the story of a hard living young woman who has a change of purpose in life when she becomes convinced of the imminent coming of the "Rapture", where God will appear on Earth and judge all sinners.
                Pretty unlikely eh?
                Wrong!

                Guilty Pleasures

                1. Showgirls
                It take a special talent to fill a movie full of beautiful young women, have them spend moast of the time stark naked, and ensure that there is not the slightest bit of eroticism on display.
                Step forward Paul Verhoeven!
                Ostensibly a morality tale about the seamy underbelly of Las Vegas, Verhoeven manages to turn it into a jaw dropping satire of American culture.

                2.Lifeforce
                I love Ken Russell as a unique talent, but he really went to town in this OTT slice of sci-fi hokum.
                Space vampires are running amok and it is up to Frank Finlay and Colin Firth to stop them.
                The fact that the main baddie is a beautiful young vampire who feels much more comfortable wandering about with no clothes on, is a bonus.

                3. Beyond the Valley of the Dolls
                Russ Meyer directed this movie that was intended as a sequel of sorts, to The Valley of the Dolls.
                I can only assume that the studio heads had no idea who Russ Meyer was, and where his unique interests lay.
                What followed was a breast infused madhouse of 3 young women trying to make it as rock stars.
                Oh, and Martin Bormann makes an appearance!

                I can't let this opportunity pass without paying tribute to my favourite "barking" choice.
                "The Singing Ringing Tree" was produced in East Germany in 1957, I saw it on BBC television when I was about 8 or 9 years old, and it has stayed with me ever since.
                The strange bear, the nippy dwarf, the drowning fish, are still indelibly printed on my brain.
                For children under 10, this series was a really weird experience.

                Comment


                • I know I've posted it before, but I'm baffled why in the middle of an otherwise good film, we should have a bizarre scene with an unbelievable mix of accents ('hey govnor, you're a toff' v 'let's hurry and spend it before all the fireworks are gone') plus the immortal line 'it comes every year, sir.'

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTc41s8qIoU

                  Comment


                  • On Hollywood's sins regarding England and Hangover Square and jumping to conclusions

                    Originally posted by Robert View Post
                    I know I've posted it before, but I'm baffled why in the middle of an otherwise good film, we should have a bizarre scene with an unbelievable mix of accents ('hey govnor, you're a toff' v 'let's hurry and spend it before all the fireworks are gone') plus the immortal line 'it comes every year, sir.'

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTc41s8qIoU
                    Hi Robert,

                    The answer is simple, and was brought home on the British situation comedy, "As Time Goes By". Lionel has written a simple screenplay about his romance in the early 1950s with Jean, and it has been optioned by an American studio network. But gradually Lionel and Jean (and even the bouncy Alistaire) realize that serious changes are being made to the script. The result is a frank abortion. The man who is between the studio and Lionel, etc. has a simple explanation: the show is set in Britain, but has to be sensible to some unknown viewer of television in Idaho. This, of course, is nonsense, but the studio is spending megabucks on the filming, and want to make sure it is successful (so the film can be shown in rerun eventually).
                    Among other things, Lionel's character in the screenplay leaves for his army base to go to Korea from "London" Station (i.e. not Waterloo or Paddington).
                    His father is constantly wearing an Edwardian military uniform, and has a monocle in his eye, and uses expressions like "What! What!" One is glad to announce at the end the finished program is a disaster (although Lionel gets a lot of money for the original screenplay that was not used).

                    Same thing with the picture of English or British home life in the American films of the 1930s and 1940s. The writers in Hollywood added crazy cultural mistakes in all of them because (even if they occasionally vacationed in the British Isles, and many didn't) they had little opportunity of knowing how far they were. England had a thriving film industry going back to the teens, but those English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh entertainers who made it usually ended up crossing the "Pond" and working in the U.S. (George Arliss, whose American stage career was better than his British one, Charlie Chaplin, Stan Laurel, and later Alfred Hitchcock). All found the U.S. rich and able to give them more resources to work with. But unless they had tight control or heavy advice on these projects (Hitchcock with David O. Selznick - at least for five years; Chaplin when he became his own producer, director; Laurel with Hal Roach) the results were not conducive to current realities in Britain.

                    I think that after about 1938 (with Hitchcock's growing success across the globe) a slow change came, but it was not until the post - World War II sweep of big British champion films ("The Red Shoes", "Black Narcissus", "The Fallen Idol", "The Third Man", "Brief Encounter", "Blithe Spirit", David Lean's Dickens films) that reality set in. Until then you were going to have vocal gaffes in the dialogue of even the best films - like poor "Hangover Square". I swallow such gaffes. It is such a good film, with poor Laird Cregar giving his last great performance as "George Bone", really his most pitiful human monster.

                    By the way, that dialog problem is not the worst in "Hangover Square". Jon Goodman told me back around 1991 that the novel was not set in Victorian/Edwardian England. It was set in the weeks proceeding the beginning of World War II in England (July - September 1939). The film was reset because Darryl Zanuck, seeing the success of "The Lodger" (which is set in the correct historical period), decided to replicate it using Cregar and George Sanders again in the male leads. This has frequently made me wonder if Cregar's tragic fatal diet/heart attack in 1944 prevented his career from being type-cast as "everyone's favorite Victorian mad-killer" (a sort of soulful, sad version of Tod Slaughter I suppose), with poor Sanders, just free of Simon Templer "the Saint" and "The Falcon" (which his film death left in the hands of his brother Tom Conway) ending up his career as a caring friend trying to stop and help mad Laird. Think of Sanders' marvelous range as a performer blunted like that: no King Charles II in "Forever Amber", no "Addison DeWitt" in "All About Eve", no self-sacrificing hero in "The Village of the Damned". But we would have had a string of Victorian shockers.

                    Jonathan's bombshell (to me) about the proper setting of "Hangover Square" did prevent me from making an ass of myself. When I first saw that film, it occurred to me that, like "The Lodger" the basis of the mad killer might be the Ripper. I looked over serious British musician/composers of the 1888 variety who might be the actual model (and so a serious contender for the Ripper). I found one. I never had a chance to fully research the matter, so I never bothered producing my theory. Then Jon told me about the actual date of the story. My whole structure collapsed, and I decided 1) not to pursue the matter; and 2) never push any particular candidate for being the Ripper again. I have stuck to that, and now you know why "Arthur Goring Thomas" (1850-1892) is not on our list of candidates here.

                    [For anyone interested (WHY???), Goring Thomas was England's rising operatic hope with pieces like "The Lotus Eaters", and "Esmeralda", showing the influence of Ambroise Thomas's (no relative) from France. But he began to lose his sanity in 1890, and in March 1892 threw himself beneath a train.]
                    Last edited by Mayerling; 12-20-2014, 11:16 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Julie & Julia

                      Meryl Streep gave an uncanny performance as Julia Child, the television chef. I liked it.
                      Last edited by Paddy Goose; 12-21-2014, 07:19 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Edward D Wood Jr. has long been a hero of mine ( long before the Tim Burton film.. which I admit I enjoyed... even though it was far from accurate…however thanks to that film most of Ed’s work made it too legit DVD release.. great for us fans), now I know most people laugh when I saw that, or don’t believe me… but it’s true…Here is a man who actually got to make a few films that he wanted too. Despite total lack of studio help, or money or real talent (as some claim.. I disagree with this.. I feel given time and budget he could have made much better films than he did)…He didn’t just dream this stuff, he actually did it.. which is FAR more than most of the people who bash him have done.. Yes his films are full of flaws…..and the cheapness shows.. and the lack of acting talent (Lugosi excluded) is laughable (but hey.. again he worked with what he could afford)…and yes his dialog was a bit hokey (to put it nice) but all that aside.. his films (for the most part) are entertaining…and memorable despite the “bad” elements, a film like Jail Bait is every bit as enjoyable as contemporary films…..Bride of the Monster is no worse, and actually far better than many horror films of that time… And Plan 9…well.. there is more than enough written about Plan 9….Night of the Ghouls (which wasn’t released officially till years after Woods death) has some great moments… and is actually far ahead of its time in some respects….

                        Yes he may have had far more will than skill…and yes he was an odd character (and brave.. he was an open transvestite in the 1950’s.. that alone could have gotten a man killed or locked up!!!) but let’s face it… for better or worse, he is more well known today than many of the A list directors of his time…and when people try and call Plan 9 “ the worst film of all time” just because someone wrote that in a book…. Come on people, really.. a film that entertains you, and makes you laugh ( even if it is unintentional ) is worse than Hollywood garbage like “Top Gun” or any other 100 million dollar totally forgettable film that they churn out….55 years after it came out people are still watching Plan 9.. most “big films” that come out now are totally forgotten about after their initial first run….

                        Steadmund Brand
                        "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Steadmund Brand View Post
                          Edward D Wood Jr. has long been a hero of mine ( long before the Tim Burton film.. which I admit I enjoyed... even though it was far from accurate…however thanks to that film most of Ed’s work made it too legit DVD release.. great for us fans), now I know most people laugh when I saw that, or don’t believe me… but it’s true…Here is a man who actually got to make a few films that he wanted too. Despite total lack of studio help, or money or real talent (as some claim.. I disagree with this.. I feel given time and budget he could have made much better films than he did)…He didn’t just dream this stuff, he actually did it.. which is FAR more than most of the people who bash him have done.. Yes his films are full of flaws…..and the cheapness shows.. and the lack of acting talent (Lugosi excluded) is laughable (but hey.. again he worked with what he could afford)…and yes his dialog was a bit hokey (to put it nice) but all that aside.. his films (for the most part) are entertaining…and memorable despite the “bad” elements, a film like Jail Bait is every bit as enjoyable as contemporary films…..Bride of the Monster is no worse, and actually far better than many horror films of that time… And Plan 9…well.. there is more than enough written about Plan 9….Night of the Ghouls (which wasn’t released officially till years after Woods death) has some great moments… and is actually far ahead of its time in some respects….

                          Yes he may have had far more will than skill…and yes he was an odd character (and brave.. he was an open transvestite in the 1950’s.. that alone could have gotten a man killed or locked up!!!) but let’s face it… for better or worse, he is more well known today than many of the A list directors of his time…and when people try and call Plan 9 “ the worst film of all time” just because someone wrote that in a book…. Come on people, really.. a film that entertains you, and makes you laugh ( even if it is unintentional ) is worse than Hollywood garbage like “Top Gun” or any other 100 million dollar totally forgettable film that they churn out….55 years after it came out people are still watching Plan 9.. most “big films” that come out now are totally forgotten about after their initial first run….

                          Steadmund Brand
                          ive never seen Plan 9, but im getting it now!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Steadmund Brand View Post
                            Edward D Wood Jr. has long been a hero of mine ( long before the Tim Burton film.. which I admit I enjoyed... even though it was far from accurate…however thanks to that film most of Ed’s work made it too legit DVD release.. great for us fans), now I know most people laugh when I saw that, or don’t believe me… but it’s true…Here is a man who actually got to make a few films that he wanted too. Despite total lack of studio help, or money or real talent (as some claim.. I disagree with this.. I feel given time and budget he could have made much better films than he did)…He didn’t just dream this stuff, he actually did it.. which is FAR more than most of the people who bash him have done.. Yes his films are full of flaws…..and the cheapness shows.. and the lack of acting talent (Lugosi excluded) is laughable (but hey.. again he worked with what he could afford)…and yes his dialog was a bit hokey (to put it nice) but all that aside.. his films (for the most part) are entertaining…and memorable despite the “bad” elements, a film like Jail Bait is every bit as enjoyable as contemporary films…..Bride of the Monster is no worse, and actually far better than many horror films of that time… And Plan 9…well.. there is more than enough written about Plan 9….Night of the Ghouls (which wasn’t released officially till years after Woods death) has some great moments… and is actually far ahead of its time in some respects….

                            Yes he may have had far more will than skill…and yes he was an odd character (and brave.. he was an open transvestite in the 1950’s.. that alone could have gotten a man killed or locked up!!!) but let’s face it… for better or worse, he is more well known today than many of the A list directors of his time…and when people try and call Plan 9 “ the worst film of all time” just because someone wrote that in a book…. Come on people, really.. a film that entertains you, and makes you laugh ( even if it is unintentional ) is worse than Hollywood garbage like “Top Gun” or any other 100 million dollar totally forgettable film that they churn out….55 years after it came out people are still watching Plan 9.. most “big films” that come out now are totally forgotten about after their initial first run….

                            Steadmund Brand
                            Steadman,
                            A very good critique of Plan 9.

                            Ed Wood fought the Japanese in WW2 and was worried about being wounded because he was wearing women's underwear under his combat uniform.

                            A brave guy in many ways.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                              ive never seen Plan 9, but im getting it now!
                              Do yourself a favor... wait till at least midnight to watch it...something about the mood...watching it in the dark.. makes for a better experience

                              Steadmund Brand
                              "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
                                Steadman,
                                A very good critique of Plan 9.

                                Ed Wood fought the Japanese in WW2 and was worried about being wounded because he was wearing women's underwear under his combat uniform.

                                A brave guy in many ways.
                                He was indeed... And he really did love what he was doing too, and that shows thru,, his real story is so sad and tragic.. one thing I did like about the Burton pic was it was a pretty loving tribute to him....yeah.. we were meant to laugh at him... but they didn't get into the really dark side of his life.. the alcoholism that killed him at the age of 54.. the fact that he was living on skid row much of the time ( not even able to make the rent there.. what little money he did get went to booze) the fact that he ended up making cheap hardcore porn films (yes cheap even by 1970’s porn standards) and how he was just a totally broken man by the end….but he tried so hard… and like I said.. he got farther than most.. he actually did get to make some of his films… and He did get work for Lugosi when nobody else would hire him (and not just the few films.. he did a lot more for Bela than the Burton movies shows.. including getting him a Las Vegas revue show) and he gave forgotten actors parts, and something to do.. he loved the world of movies… and I always felt bad that it didn’t love him back till long after he was gone.

                                Steadmund Brand
                                "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

                                Comment

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