Election

[String]

https://youtu.be/aYMy2qdNPF0?si=W_8tZ_WdXEjOX9pQ

[Geddy2112]

It's a shame that your walk down Whitechapel High Street involved so many brown faces, and the foreign language too, that's insult to injury. Maybe stick to an ethnic safe space in future.

I really hope you are not being serious with this comment and if so 'there in lies the problem.'

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

I really hope you are not being serious with this comment and if so 'there in lies the problem.'

Hi Geddy,
Perhaps a little strong.

We're not a big community, and this arguing isn't going to help. Maybe for the best if we just accept our respective points if view and move on? Live and let live.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’m making a final post on this subject for two reasons. Firstly for clarification (because I want there to be no mistake about my own position on this very emotive subject) and secondly because I read this from Al: “Sadly, I thought that the level of idiocy that would lead to me leaving casebook would come from a psychic or some wank theory. It's come from pub talk.” I would be really saddened and disappointed if Al decided not to post on here again (for whatever his reason). I always enjoy his posts and his balanced, common sense opinions and his sense of humour. I would be even more saddened if he felt that my posts hinted at any issue with immigrants as people of different nationalities. Whilst I realise that I’d be no one’s first choice for a career in the diplomatic corps I really hope that my position hasn’t been misunderstood.

The thread began, as per the title, on the Election and naturally included issues that the voters feel are important factors in deciding how to vote. Immigration came up because in every poll that we see it’s high on the agenda for the public in general. I think that we all accept that any discussion on this subject can be like running through a minefield on a firing range. There’s an old saying about being wary of discussing religion and politics; I think that we can add immigration to the list. It doesn’t mean that the subject should be off the discussion table though.

I think that many people, as they get older, find their opinions changing to varying extents on a variety of subjects. It’s my experience that it’s often the case that we move away from the more idealist left and thi is certainly what has happened in my case. Although I was intending not to vote this year I still ended up putting my cross on the piece of paper next to Labour so I haven’t completely gone over to the dark side (and never will). Whether Labour will do any better I don’t know. I certainly hope so. My own experience is that I see so much in society that I don’t like which, combined with my natural pessimism, leaves me with little hope for a brighter future. This doesn’t mean that I’m right though. I’m also conscious that nostalgia can affect my opinions. A yearning for an earlier time, even for a time before I was born. It’s a cliché but it’s a yearning for that time when people could walk the street without fear of being knifed. Where you could walk down a high street without the smell of cannabis hanging in the air. Where old people felt safe in their homes and in the streets. Where criminals got punished for committing crimes. That’s not now the case though because successive governments have shown that they really have no appetite for addressing these issues. And if they have no appetite for addressing them they can only get worse as far as I can see - imagine that.

A worry about change can include immigration of course (but, as has been pointed out on here, we can’t lay all of society’s ills at the door of our current immigration policy). If we assume that the polls are fairly accurate though then the majority of people in this country are concerned about the current, and previous, levels of immigration. Not only that, immigration is one of their biggest concerns. Hopefully we can at least countenance the suggestion that not all of these people are racists? Rightly or wrongly they are genuinely concerned. Maybe some of them are ill-informed (maybe I am too?) but that’s the fault of successive governments for not being open enough with information when following their own agendas and hiding facts and figures that they don’t want the public to be aware of. The public have seen other countries maintain some semblance of control over immigration and yet it appears not to have been the case here. Due to the EU for example they have seen since 2011, 470,000 Romanians flooding into the country. Then they read and see TV programmes about Romanian shoplifting gangs. They then, like I did two years ago in Bayswater, see a virtual army of Romanians begging aggressively in the street. Now, I don’t blame people for wanting a better life but it’s hardly surprising that things like this cause ill feeling. Of course not all immigrants are the same or have the same stories and backgrounds but we should understand how things can at least appear and the affect that it can have on the population. It’s why many over the years have argued for a more gradual approach to immigration. To give people time to settle in, to get used to a different way of life, to allow people to assimilate into society rather that gathering in pockets of a certain nationality.

I have no issue with immigration in general, it’s a good thing if controlled and I certainly have no problem with people of different nationalities or beliefs. Most people are decent wherever they come from. If I have concerns (and I do) they are almost solely in regard to two aspects. Firstly the numbers, which I still believe have an adverse effect on our ability to achieve a fair society - others disagree of course. And secondly, issues where the authorities are reluctant to deal with serious problems that exist because they worry about being labelled as an …ist or a …phobe. My concerns come from small sections of our society who genuinely believe that we should change our ways to conform to their beliefs. We have to be fair to all which means not only ensuring that we all enjoy the same benefits of living here but we should all be subject to the laws and norms of this country. Achieving this, and we haven’t so far in my opinion, can only have a positive effect on relations and reduce any suspicions, tensions and ill feelings which may exist. We have to be able to speak openly on all suspects and we have to acknowledge concerns. If those concerns are unfounded then this is due to a lack of transparency combined with ‘interest groups’ taking advantage of the situation and ‘stoking the fires,’ whether on the left or right. Accurate information and open discussion is vital.

Hopefully there are things that we can all agree on and one of them is that racism is a stain on humanity that has led to pogroms, genocides, slavery and more. It’s one that has improved and is improving but we all know that it’s not going to be completely eradicated any time soon. We, and those who we put into power, shouldn’t allow the above fact though make us fear to discuss or to deal honesty with the problems that currently exist and have existed for some time. We all have our own individual outlooks and life experiences which shape our opinions. We can all be right or wrong or a bit of both. I believe that people on here are, in general, decent people but people with human faults (except me of course) and differences of opinion. Maybe we can all be guilty of forgetting that?

[Geddy2112]

Hi Geddy,
Perhaps a little strong.

We're not a big community, and this arguing isn't going to help. Maybe for the best if we just accept our respective points if view and move on? Live and let live.

I agree and I really hope this thread has not actually made you consider leaving. This community would be a worse place without you.

[Geddy2112]

If I have concerns (and I do) they are almost solely in regard to two aspects. Firstly the numbers, which I still believe have an adverse effect on our ability to achieve a fair society - others disagree of course. And secondly, issues where the authorities are reluctant to deal with serious problems that exist because they worry about being labelled as an …ist or a …phobe. My concerns come from small sections of our society who genuinely believe that we should change our ways to conform to their beliefs. We have to be fair to all which means not only ensuring that we all enjoy the same benefits of living here but we should all be subject to the laws and norms of this country. Achieving this, and we haven’t so far in my opinion, can only have a positive effect on relations and reduce any suspicions, tensions and ill feelings which may exist. We have to be able to speak openly on all suspects and we have to acknowledge concerns. If those concerns are unfounded then this is due to a lack of transparency combined with ‘interest groups’ taking advantage of the situation and ‘stoking the fires,’ whether on the left or right. Accurate information and open discussion is vital.

Much better put than I could. The bold bit is my bug bear and yes it's a small minority but that minority is getting bigger.

[Wickerman]

Much better put than I could. The bold bit is my bug bear and yes it's a small minority but that minority is getting bigger.

Agreed, but it isn't small in Europe, and that is what people need to keep their eye on. It might be an exaggeration today to suggest Europe is Burning, but anyone who can view European news by satellite TV will see for themselves the widespread riots, almost nightly in some areas, where migrants are destroying their host cities because they do not agree with western ideologies.

In Britain the BBC & SKY are not reporting what is happening all across Europe. Even Turkey, a predominantly Muslim country has decided to take a stand against all the crime migration has brought to its country. They are adopting policies to send all Syrians back, regardless of any ECHR opinions or rulings. The tipping point came recently when it became known a Syrian man raped a 7 year old girl. Why?, because to them it is acceptable, females & women to them are possessions they have no rights. Turkey has called them barbarians, uncultured & uncivilized. Obviously this does not apply to all Muslims, they are Muslims themselves. They are talking about illegal migrants.

Did you know Poland has erected a Trump-style, steel & barbed wire fence the whole length of its border with Belarus?
These thousands of migrants are chopping trees down to try create bridges over the fence, they are using wire clippers to cut holes in the fence. How are they getting this heavy equipment? Clearly they are receiving help from Belarus to enable them to surge into Poland. Poland has established its military along the entire border with Belarus.
How do we know?, its all on Polish news.

Russia - Putin is bussing migrants from his southern border with Afghanistan to its European border and giving them forged visa's to enable them to enter Europe.
He is weaponizing the migrants to destabilize European countries.

Sweden had stopped accepting immigrants, while it sorts out those who have entered illegally, contrary to ECHR. This is from Swedish news.

Denmark had identified the areas the migrants who refuse to assimilate as 'ghettos', and marked them for demolition. Denmark has stopped migration, while it divides up those that refuse to assimilate and spreads them across the country, contrary to ECHR - Denmark news.

Germany is dealing with migrant riots weekly, if not nightly in some areas. DW news (Germany)

France is dealing with its own migrant riots, smashing shop windows and assaulting western females.

Citizens who are genuinely concerned about these developments are taking action, they are not racist, they are not Islamophobic. Jews, Christians & Muslims are joining forces against this radical invasion of the west.
Brits shouldn't be like PM Neville Chamberlain in 1938, waving his wokery sentiments declaring "Peace in our time" - how did that turn out?

It took a Churchill to seize power and defend the country from what was obviously developing in Europe.
Britain doesn't have a Churchill this time.

Wokery sentiments are not going to save the country from radical migrants posing as asylum seekers. Changing our laws, customs, traditions, for fear of 'offending someone' is the weak attitude those radicals are hoping for, it helps their cause.
What is their cause?
Radical Muslims have not been secretive about their intention to establish Sharia (Law), across the west. Iran has adopted a strategy for creating a Muslim Caliphate across Europe.

Even if anyone is not convinced (what else would it take?), at least keep your eyes on Labor policies that are intended to favor one group - one particular group!

[Wickerman]

Ms Diddles is going to love this.....

EXCLUSIVE: Channel migrants given SMARTPHONES

https://youtu.be/y1BEZ7SSzBc

Tens of thousands of taxpayer-funded mobile phones are being handed to foreign criminals who are subject to deportation and the rocketing number of people who came here without permission, including those who claimed asylum after entering the UK by dinghy. 14,000 were given out just between January and September this year.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2021/11/11/illegal-immigrants-handed-an-estimated-30000-taxpayer-funded-mobile-phones-since-middle-of-2020

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

I agree and I really hope this thread has not actually made you consider leaving. This community would be a worse place without you.

Nah, we're good. Same to Herlock, no hard feelings.

[Ms Diddles]

Ms Diddles is going to love this.....

EXCLUSIVE: Channel migrants given SMARTPHONES

https://youtu.be/y1BEZ7SSzBc

Tens of thousands of taxpayer-funded mobile phones are being handed to foreign criminals who are subject to deportation and the rocketing number of people who came here without permission, including those who claimed asylum after entering the UK by dinghy. 14,000 were given out just between January and September this year.
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/new...middle-of-2020

Hi Wick!

Ms Diddles is utterly ambivalent about this!

GB news and Migrant Watch are hardly known for their objective reportage.

This is the usual misinformation and incendiary rhetoric.

The Home Office have stated that mobile phones were indeed issued as a temporary measure during Covid restrictions when face-to-face interviews were not possible.

https://fullfact.org/online/asylum-seeker-free-iphone/

They are not issued as a matter of course and this sounds like a perfectly sensible measure during Covid to me.

The GB News video appears to be talking about mobile phones issued by the charity Care for Calais not taxpayer-funded (although I must admit, my eyes glazed over and I gave up before the end)

What about those tax-payer funded bicycles?

Where did that come from?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Nah, we're good. Same to Herlock, no hard feelings.

Glad to hear it Al

[Ms Diddles]

I’m making a final post on this subject for two reasons. Firstly for clarification (because I want there to be no mistake about my own position on this very emotive subject) and secondly because I read this from Al: “Sadly, I thought that the level of idiocy that would lead to me leaving casebook would come from a psychic or some wank theory. It's come from pub talk.” I would be really saddened and disappointed if Al decided not to post on here again (for whatever his reason). I always enjoy his posts and his balanced, common sense opinions and his sense of humour. I would be even more saddened if he felt that my posts hinted at any issue with immigrants as people of different nationalities. Whilst I realise that I’d be no one’s first choice for a career in the diplomatic corps I really hope that my position hasn’t been misunderstood.

The thread began, as per the title, on the Election and naturally included issues that the voters feel are important factors in deciding how to vote. Immigration came up because in every poll that we see it’s high on the agenda for the public in general. I think that we all accept that any discussion on this subject can be like running through a minefield on a firing range. There’s an old saying about being wary of discussing religion and politics; I think that we can add immigration to the list. It doesn’t mean that the subject should be off the discussion table though.

I think that many people, as they get older, find their opinions changing to varying extents on a variety of subjects. It’s my experience that it’s often the case that we move away from the more idealist left and thi is certainly what has happened in my case. Although I was intending not to vote this year I still ended up putting my cross on the piece of paper next to Labour so I haven’t completely gone over to the dark side (and never will). Whether Labour will do any better I don’t know. I certainly hope so. My own experience is that I see so much in society that I don’t like which, combined with my natural pessimism, leaves me with little hope for a brighter future. This doesn’t mean that I’m right though. I’m also conscious that nostalgia can affect my opinions. A yearning for an earlier time, even for a time before I was born. It’s a cliché but it’s a yearning for that time when people could walk the street without fear of being knifed. Where you could walk down a high street without the smell of cannabis hanging in the air. Where old people felt safe in their homes and in the streets. Where criminals got punished for committing crimes. That’s not now the case though because successive governments have shown that they really have no appetite for addressing these issues. And if they have no appetite for addressing them they can only get worse as far as I can see - imagine that.

A worry about change can include immigration of course (but, as has been pointed out on here, we can’t lay all of society’s ills at the door of our current immigration policy). If we assume that the polls are fairly accurate though then the majority of people in this country are concerned about the current, and previous, levels of immigration. Not only that, immigration is one of their biggest concerns. Hopefully we can at least countenance the suggestion that not all of these people are racists? Rightly or wrongly they are genuinely concerned. Maybe some of them are ill-informed (maybe I am too?) but that’s the fault of successive governments for not being open enough with information when following their own agendas and hiding facts and figures that they don’t want the public to be aware of. The public have seen other countries maintain some semblance of control over immigration and yet it appears not to have been the case here. Due to the EU for example they have seen since 2011, 470,000 Romanians flooding into the country. Then they read and see TV programmes about Romanian shoplifting gangs. They then, like I did two years ago in Bayswater, see a virtual army of Romanians begging aggressively in the street. Now, I don’t blame people for wanting a better life but it’s hardly surprising that things like this cause ill feeling. Of course not all immigrants are the same or have the same stories and backgrounds but we should understand how things can at least appear and the affect that it can have on the population. It’s why many over the years have argued for a more gradual approach to immigration. To give people time to settle in, to get used to a different way of life, to allow people to assimilate into society rather that gathering in pockets of a certain nationality.

I have no issue with immigration in general, it’s a good thing if controlled and I certainly have no problem with people of different nationalities or beliefs. Most people are decent wherever they come from. If I have concerns (and I do) they are almost solely in regard to two aspects. Firstly the numbers, which I still believe have an adverse effect on our ability to achieve a fair society - others disagree of course. And secondly, issues where the authorities are reluctant to deal with serious problems that exist because they worry about being labelled as an …ist or a …phobe. My concerns come from small sections of our society who genuinely believe that we should change our ways to conform to their beliefs. We have to be fair to all which means not only ensuring that we all enjoy the same benefits of living here but we should all be subject to the laws and norms of this country. Achieving this, and we haven’t so far in my opinion, can only have a positive effect on relations and reduce any suspicions, tensions and ill feelings which may exist. We have to be able to speak openly on all suspects and we have to acknowledge concerns. If those concerns are unfounded then this is due to a lack of transparency combined with ‘interest groups’ taking advantage of the situation and ‘stoking the fires,’ whether on the left or right. Accurate information and open discussion is vital.

Hopefully there are things that we can all agree on and one of them is that racism is a stain on humanity that has led to pogroms, genocides, slavery and more. It’s one that has improved and is improving but we all know that it’s not going to be completely eradicated any time soon. We, and those who we put into power, shouldn’t allow the above fact though make us fear to discuss or to deal honesty with the problems that currently exist and have existed for some time. We all have our own individual outlooks and life experiences which shape our opinions. We can all be right or wrong or a bit of both. I believe that people on here are, in general, decent people but people with human faults (except me of course) and differences of opinion. Maybe we can all be guilty of forgetting that?

Great Post Herlock!

There is a lot here that we can all agree on.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Great Post Herlock!

There is a lot here that we can all agree on.

Thanks Ms D.

[Wickerman]

...

What about those tax-payer funded bicycles?

Where did that come from?

I can see you don't trouble yourself to find these details out for yourself.

An extraordinary number of used bicycles behind a Migrant Hotel in Hull.
Those migrants who will speak to reporters say they were given the bicycles.



Regardless who paid for them, one of the problems homeless Brits have in finding work is lack of transportation.
Where are their bikes?
Who is prepared to buy, rent, donate, any bicycles for the British Homeless who need them?

[Wickerman]

Ms Diddles, have you heard of the Syrian Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme? (VPRS), nothing wrong with it, I'm sure it serves a good purpose.

It is a Govt. supported scheme and here is one example where a Birmingham based group called The Bike Project, was awarded a Grant under the Syrian VPRS to provide donated bicycles, repair them and hand them out to Migrants & Asylum Seekers.
Like I said, nothing wrong with that, what I am showing here is the program is using tax payers dollars to provide bicycles to migrants. Which is what I said was going on.

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50227/city_of_sanctuary/2513/resettlement_in_birmingham/6

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a8209abe5274a2e87dc0d21/170711_Syrian_Resettlement_Updated_Fact_Sheet_final.pdf

Here is a local community group doing the same thing.
https://bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsro...%20free%20bike.

So, to reiterate, foreign migrants are receiving a weekly paycheck, plus benefits many British citizens cannot afford.
They are also receiving mobile phones from both govt. & private sources.
Also via govt. grants are receiving bicycles for transportation.

That is what I originally said, and it is proven correct, contrary to those who claim otherwise.