Just where do we go from here?

[DVV]

I am not going to argue over the reality of Jesus because it is a mostly irrelevant discussion. What is relevant is they have a testament to their religion. In one book, there are the words of Jesus himself, regarding the law of their religion. The majority of Christians choose to overlook and ignore the words of their own god, in the book they claim is sacred, in favor of the words of mere mortal men who weren't even primary apostles or followers of that god.

In other words, they choose to use the interpretation of a man, over the words of their god so that they can comfort themselves that theirs is a religion of reason and non-violence. They are full of it.

You said in a previous post that Paul's words were of little value compared to those of Jesus.

And thereafter you have quoted a barbaric chapter of the Leviticus as if Christians had to follow all that is written in the Old Testament. (Including lapidation and all that stuff ?)

Now tell us : is Paul less important than the Leviticus for Christians ?

[Ally]

Now tell us : is Paul less important than the Leviticus for Christians ?

You tell me. Paul was a mortal man who was not even one of Jesus primary disciples and never heard him preach in life. Leviticus is the LAW OF GOD and Jesus said he was not here to overturn the law of god. So if Paul is more important to you than the law, then you are selectively cherry picking out the bits of your religion you find favorable to follow. Just like mainstream Muslims do everyday when THEY choose to concentrate on the better bits of their holy text and ignore the icky parts that would make them look like dicks.

[Smoking Joe]

[QUOTE=Beowulf;262541]

Love the poem, lol. Of course there is always Breitbart

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2...derate-Muslims

Id imagine a Fatwa has allready been issued on this guy.......by MODERATE Muslims of course
Interesting article,puts the Apologists to shame.

[Smoking Joe]

maybe this will help:


UNESCO World Heritage Site Biblical Tells – Megiddo, Hazor, Beer Sheba
Name as inscribed on the World Heritage List
Tel megido.JPG
Country Israel
Type Cultural
Criteria ii, iii, iv, vi
Reference 1108
UNESCO region Asia
Inscription history
Inscription 2005 (29th Session)
Tel Megiddo is located in Israel
Location of Tel Megiddo in Israel.
Ruins atop Tel Megiddo

Megiddo (Hebrew: מגידו; Arabic: المجیدو, Tell al-Mutesellim) is a tell in modern Israel near Kibbutz Megiddo, about 30km south-east of Haifa, known for its historical, geographical, and theological importance, especially under its Greek name Armageddon. In ancient times Megiddo was an important city-state. Excavations have unearthed 26 layers of ruins, indicating a long period of settlement. Megiddo is strategically located at the head of a pass through the Carmel Ridge overlooking the Jezreel Valley from the west.

Thank you. It might be a good place to stay away from.....just in case. I dont believe in Biblical prophesies ,but I think ILL hedge my bets on this one.Everything seems to be falling into place rather too neatly for me.

[DVV]

You tell me. Paul was a mortal man who was not even one of Jesus primary disciples and never heard him preach in life. Leviticus is the LAW OF GOD and Jesus said he was not here to overturn the law of god. So if Paul is more important to you than the law, then you are selectively cherry picking out the bits of your religion you find favorable to follow. Just like mainstream Muslims do everyday when THEY choose to concentrate on the better bits of their holy text and ignore the icky parts that would make them look like dicks.

You really like to think you're Thomas Aquinas, Ally.

It's a real treat to read your posts.

But apart from you, do you know of any famous Christian theologian who advocates to stone women to death ?

[Errata]

You really like to think you're Thomas Aquinas, Ally.

It's a real treat to read your posts.

But apart from you, do you know of any famous Christian theologian who advocates to stone women to death ?

Jesus Christ

[DVV]

Jesus Christ

Good try.
But try again.

[DVV]

Or try to convince a Jewish extremist how Christian is the Leviticus.

[Archaic]

But apart from you, do you know of any famous Christian theologian who advocates to stone women to death ?

Jesus Christ.

- ???

Christ stopped an angry crowd from stoning an adulterous woman to death. They dragged her before him, claiming she was a "sinner" and should be stoned to death.

Christ sat there quietly tracing in the dirt with a stick while the mob waited for what he would say- a very smart move, by the way, as it gave the rabid crowd a chance to calm down.

Then he said, "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone."

Those in the mob hesitated... then one by one dropped their stones and dispersed.

When they were gone, he asked the woman, "Who has condemned you?"

She replied, "No one, Lord". Christ said, "Neither then do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more."

--------------------------------------------

Fellow Casebookers,

I am appalled by the vitriol present on this thread, and particularly by the attacks of some on the personal religious beliefs of others.

I am a Christian. I'm not ashamed of it.

Like any human being, I lose my temper sometimes, but I strive to live up to the example set by Christ and "love my neighbor as myself".

I sincerely hope I have always treated all of you with respect and kindness. If I haven't, I apologize now and ask you to forgive me.

Would anyone like to attack me? This is your opportunity.

If you want to do so, you might want to do it in the next few days, as I am seriously considering withdrawing from Casebook.

Best regards,
Archaic

[DVV]

Don't worry Bunny.
I guess Errata is embarrassed because Ally has just proven the Leviticus could be as barbaric as the Koran.

While Jesus is something else, as proven by Eddie Cochran.

From Provence, with love
David

[Errata]

Fellow Casebookers,

I am appalled by the vitriol present on this thread, and particularly by the attacks of some on the personal religious beliefs of others.

I am a Christian. I'm not ashamed of it.

Like any human being, I lose my temper sometimes, but I strive to live up to the example set by Christ and "love my neighbor as myself".

I sincerely hope I have always treated all of you with respect and kindness. If I haven't, I apologize now and ask you to forgive me.

Would anyone like to attack me? This is your opportunity.

If you want to do so, you might want to do it in the next few days, as I am seriously considering withdrawing from Casebook.

Best regards,
Archaic

I've had bad experiences with some Christians, but I find Christianity quite beautiful. Judaism is law. It's not about peace and love, it's about law. When a Jew like me reads the story of the adulterous woman, I don't read it the way Christians do. You see compassion. I see the law. Jesus said that the laws of Moses were to be upheld. Which might seem to contradict the story of the adulterous woman. It does not. An adulterous woman has to be accused by her husband or (or father or son) and witnesses must be produced to confirm the adultery. In the story with Christ, it seems like he makes a compassionate plea for the woman's life by pointing out the failings of those around her. And that is true. But he turns the crowd away by upholding the law. Her husband did not accuse her, no witnesses came forth. She could not be put to death under the law. So this crowd was not a body of citizens trying to execute judgment under Talmudic law. They were a lynch mob. Which became apparent after Jesus asked them the important questions. Jesus upheld the laws of the Talmud. Which makes sense because his great teacher was one of the greatest Rabbis in our history. So there is no reason to think that had her husband and the witnesses come forth as required that he would not have upheld the sentence of death. Which is why I say that Jesus Christ advocated for the stoning of women. Because he did advocate the law. And there were acknowledgments of sins that led to death. Given the great sins of the time, none would lead to any kind of natural death. The closest thing would have been venereal disease, and not deadly ones. They were talking about executions under the law.

But the laws he upheld were the laws of Moses. The laws of the Jews. So I'm not saying any of this as though Jews are somehow morally better people. We were not, we are not. But Jews tend to be very honest that the reason we don't obey those laws any longer is because we choose not to. We assume god changed his mind with the advent of the prison system. We don't have some pronouncement to back that up, but we aren't going to stone women to death for cheating. So we ignore what we don't like. I have met many Christians who are of the opinion that they are excused from the laws of the Old Testament because somewhere along the line god told them they didn't have to obey those rules anymore. I've read the New Testament. It doesn't say that. So I'm not exactly sure when that supposedly happened, but it was not during the life of Jesus, And I would have thought that if god revealed himself in a burning bush like fashion again, it would have gotten some press. So I think Christians, like Jews, choose not to obey the rules they don't like. Same choice to trust the secular justice system for the same reasons. Paul certainly benefited from manipulating the justice system of his day. But not because god revealed himself and said "obey the secular laws". Jesus only said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Not pledge loyalty to him, not adopt him as a god/king. Pay your taxes.

So I have no problem with Christianity. Just the hypocrisy or lack of knowledge of their own religion by some Christians. I don't know everything about being a Jew, but if I don't know I say I don't know. And I don't make assumption based on the general tone of the prose. "Jesus sounds like a peaceful guy, he's against the death penalty" makes as much sense as "Jesus was all about love and cherished a prostitute, so he's all about free love". I mean, maybe both statements were true. But unless he said it, we don't know.

[DVV]

I've had bad experiences with some Christians, but I find Christianity quite beautiful.

Who cares ? (Eddie Cochran again)

[Errata]

Don't worry Bunny.
I guess Errata is embarrassed because Ally has just proven the Leviticus could be as barbaric as the Koran.

While Jesus is something else, as proven by Eddie Cochran.

From Provence, with love
David

I'm sorry, I thought I had made it perfectly clear that Leviticus is the literary equivalent of treating a hangnail by cutting off the whole arm. I mean a codified law is nice and all, and there are certainly aspects of those laws that seem bad but are actually kinda cool. But the vast majority is just a way of eradicating those who are different and turning women into a glorified serving caste. I have never even remotely hinted that Talmudic Law is some sort of enlightened code for living. There is a reason we don't follow it anymore, and not because god told us to. It's because we said "Hey... this is kind of horrid and abusive. We should stop doing that." And we did.

[Errata]

Who cares ? (Eddie Cochran again)

Clearly you do, or you wouldn't have commented on it. And who is Eddie Cochran?

[DVV]

And who is Eddie Cochran?

I thought you knew your Leviticus.