EU Vote

[Wickerman]

David Cameron says 'Brits don't quit' .......


Less than seven days later....

David Cameron resigns after UK votes to leave European Union


The Labour party threatened to split in two as 46 of its most senior MPs resigned in protest


Roy Hodgson quits as England manager after humiliating defeat by Iceland

No punch line necessary...

[Robert]

Ah well, the mistake Joe Hart made was in getting rid of his dandruff. If you look at the Icelandic players, every one of them had tons of the stuff. Each time they headed the ball, people were blinded for miles around. I feel that this was the difference between the two teams.

[louisa]

There seem to be a lot of people here in Britain who want another referendum because they didn't like the way this one went.

The best of three, maybe?


And if that happens then I think we should have a re-match football game between Iceland and England because there are a lot of people here who didn't like the the result.

[Svensson]

BTW Svensson, you said that many Germans didn't want to give up their currency and replace it with the Euro - which I can understand, especially given the 1923 business. Did the Germans get a referendum on that? Or how did the government sell the idea to them?

Not sure how they sold it, I was already living in the UK at the time. But there are no provisions for a referendum in the German constitution, which btw was pretty much dictated by the allies in 1948/49. However, this is not really an issue. there has never really been an issue where the German population demanded a referendum for anything. Not for EU or NATO membership, not for reunification and also not for the Euro. The Anti-immigrant AfD have called for a referendum on Friday, but this just shows that they don't know the basics, which is the 146 articles of the constitution.

[Harry D]

Mr. D, the politicians are scrambling because they are duty-bound to do their job and serve their country. This vote should not have been score-settling with the political class, it should have been about deciding what is the best decision for the UK going forward. And trust me, it is Joe Average who will have to deal with the consequences, not the political class.

No, it's because they're career politicians who are only out to feather their own nests. Thanks to Brexit they'll actually have to start earning their exorbitant wages for once.

And trust me, it is Joe Average who will have to deal with the consequences, not the political class.

Which was the case while we were subservient to the EU globalists.

And remember, you will be reliant on the political classes that you seem to despise so much to actually deliver a deal that with put the UK in a strong position. If you have no trust in the politicians, why hand over your yours and your children's future to them?

Joke's on you, pal. I don't have kids.

Also, at least this way the decisions will be made by OUR democratically elected officials instead of the unelected mandarins in Brussels.

[Robert]

BTW Svensson, you said that many Germans didn't want to give up their currency and replace it with the Euro - which I can understand, especially given the 1923 business. Did the Germans get a referendum on that? Or how did the government sell the idea to them?

[Svensson]

I'm sure they already know.

[Robert]

Tell that to the Greeks.

[Svensson]

the greek crisis didn't happen because they were part of the Euro, it happened because they over-borrowed.

[Robert]

In fact, the Greeks should never have been allowed to join the euro, and it was serious negligence on the part of the EU that they were allowed to join.

[Svensson]

The EU does not protect you from self-harm. The Greek crisis was a sovereign debt crisis caused by the Greek recession of 2009, structural weaknesses in the Greek economy, and revelations that previous data on government debt levels and deficits had been undercounted by the Greek government. They were borrowing like there was no tomorrow and then couldn't pay the bills when the banking crisis hit.

[Robert]

Unless you're Greek.

[Svensson]

OK, membership of the EU has been swings and roundabouts: good, bad and plain bloody silly sometimes, but I do ask myself what real, lasting benefit we got out of it.

Graham

the following is an incomplete list but contains some of the highlights.

- providing 57% UK trade;
- structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
- cleaner beaches and rivers;
- cleaner air;
- lead free petrol;
- restrictions on landfill dumping;
- a recycling culture;
- cheaper mobile charges;
- cheaper air travel;
- improved consumer protection and food labelling;
- a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
- better product safety;
- single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
- break up of monopolies;
- Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
- price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
- funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
- smoke-free workplaces;
- equal pay legislation;
- holiday entitlement;
- strongest wildlife protection in the world;
- improved animal welfare in food production;
- EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
- EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
- European arrest warrant;
- European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
- support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;


Now, there may be a number of people who will say "what? is that all?". In that case, I would say yes. Hardly stuff that is detrimental on a countrie's fundamental sovereignty anyways...

This and of course he fact that the EU is the largest economy in the world bar none with consistently high minimum living standards across its 500 million inhabitants. China and India are driving their economies based on their sheer population numbers and total disregard for employee/human-rights and not really looking after the elderly or others on the edge of society. South America have wave after wave of populist strong-men who are promising the socialist rapture, Africa are stuggling with their resource-curse and never managed to escape their post colonisation issues (for one way or another and that's all I CAN really say about that). So all in all, life in the EU isn't bad at all.

[Svensson]

I think there is a point being missed here.

For a lot of people, ‘better off in the EU’, ‘exports and imports’, ‘the economy’ are simply vague notions that happen to other people.

Many of the people who voted leave have far more pressing concerns than that, such as their day to day lives. And, up here in the old industrial heartlands people don’t have that much to lose anyway.

Let me tell you something:

I grew up in a mining village in County Durham during the ‘80s. The sort of place where everyone knew everyone, where crime was virtually zero bar the odd drink driver, where doors were unlocked, were on New Year’s Eve people waltzed into other people’s homes for a drink uninvited and it was expected, where we had galas for the community on a regular basis. We didn’t have a pot to piss in but we were happy with our lot and respected our neighbours and our community.

So, what did our arsehole government do? They shipped in problem people from places such as Leeds and Nottingham into our community. People who couldn’t respect their own communities. I should add at this point that these people were white before someone screams: “RACIST!”

What happened in a short space of time? Burglaries started happening. Doors were locked when previously they had been unlocked. Trouble started happening on New Year’s Eve and a tradition of house-footing that had probably been going on for centuries died. Our community changed.

That was my Mam, my Dad, my Grandma, my Granddad: their day-to-day lives changed by people making in decisions in London with no consideration for us.

What is the point of this? The point being that many of us here are sick to the back teeth of these people making decisions that impact upon us with no regard for us. Cameron, Corbyn, Blair and associates wouldn’t live next door to problem people; nor would ‘the bankers’; nor would the middle class left-wing luvvies who wouldn’t know hard times if it smacked them on the back of their heeds.

This resentment has built up over time. We had to watch them making fraudulent expense claims paid for by the average man on the street when many up here are struggling to make ends meet. We’ve had to watch them force us to bail out the banks on the back of their own mismanagement. Places such as Middlesbrough, Rochdale and Oldham have had to watch them place asylum seekers on their doorsteps when these places were already struggling with high unemployment – Cameron and associates wouldn’t live next door to an asylum seeker – not in a million years – nor would the middle class left-wing luvvies who talk a good game but retire to middle class suburbia surrounded by white faces talking utter shite about ‘the economy’ and ‘race relations’. Definitely a case of what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.

So, forgive us if many people up here woke up on Friday with a feeling of smug satisfaction. Working class people don’t tend to vote in great numbers at the general election because Labour or Conservative won’t make much difference to us. But this? This was different. We had a chance to tell our political elites with their grand plans to go and get ****ed.

It wasn’t even a vote against the EU for many of us; it was a vote against our political elite, most of whom backed staying in the EU, and were complicit in making decisions that benefitted them at our expense.

I am a little bit nervous of what the future holds as in my heart I want this country to prosper, but I am so pleased and proud that after all of these years of being shafted by the people who run this country that when they got the chance they said: “have that, wankers”.

And, so what if a few people from JP Morgan or wherever lose their jobs. They’ve never considered us.

OK, I get what you mean. At least, I think you do. On the one hand, I can not relate to it because I have not experienced it myself, on the other hand, I had a similar discussion after the Cricket at Edgbaston last Friday with some locals.

Then again, I find it troubling that the world has ended up in a place where some people don't necessarily vote on the actual subject.

[Svensson]

So, there was no substance behind your point. That's fine.

As for Germany:

Germany will be the dominant partner in Europe whether they want that role or not. It is inevitable that the country with the strongest economy in Europe will play the lead role. This isn't an anti-German thing, in fact you'll find that of all the countries in Europe Germany is the one that garners the most respect in this country.

It is simply inevitable that such a country will take the lead role, and we have seen this in relation to Greece.

Germany is a basket case when it comes to exercising power. They are damned if they don't and they are damned if they do as well have seen with Greece a couple of years ago. Likewise, local Ukranian beer with Putin and Merkel portrayed as Nazis (because they had both conspired to destroy the Ukraine, one by doing a lot, the other by doing nothing) that Germany can not escape it's immediate past and is therefore have their hands tied in many such situations. An EU under German rule will be politically weak.

From a German point of view, they needed the UK to be an active and positive participant in the EU to counter-balance the more socialist and protectionist French and Italian governments. The tragedy here is that the UK was never willing/able to take on that role but chose to be a disruptive influence most of the time. Even now, the UK does not seem to be interested to start working an a new relationship with the EU and therefore bring clarity to the situation as soon as possible (which will limit the economic damage to Thursday's result).

But we know why this is, don't we? It's because the leave campaign had no plan whatsoever.

We don't want that. It could be Switzerland, France, Italy, Germany or whomever else; it's simply not for us. It's not healthy to have a highly centralised state governing over millions of people from disparate nations. In fact, it is a recipe for trouble.

We simply do not see it like you. Europeans tend to think such a centralised government is some gateway to world peace. We think the opposite.

At School I had learned about France and Britain being highly centralised countries with Paris and London whereas the Holy Roman Empire was a loose collection of 1500+ governments who chose to co-operate in an area of common culture and economic interests. Everyone seemed to be happy at the time with the way things worked in this quirky and unique way. This of course all changed after the seven years war when Britain was propelled to the eminent world power and Prussia ended up as the new continental boss.