Bible John (General Discussion)

[barnflatwyngarde]

Here is the route that John McInnes, would in all likelihood have taken to get to his Uncle and Aunts house at 204 Berkeley Street, if he was the dishevelled man seen getting off the Number 6 bus at Gray Street.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Gray+St,+Glasgow/204+Berkeley+St.,+Finnieston,+Glasgow+G3+7JB/@55.8655609,-4.2863338,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x488845d470a6e505:0x8176da8dac40d836!2m2!1d-4.2866407!2d55.8665765!1m5!1m1!1s0x4888442b2f9dcd45:0x8b5cb0433fb847f9!2m2!1d-4.2807297!2d55.8650086!3e2?entry=ttu

[barnflatwyngarde]

Here is the route that John Templeton, would in all likelihood have taken to get home, if he was the dishevelled man seen getting off the Number 6 bus at Gray Street.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Gray+St,+Glasgow/Melrose+Gardens,+Glasgow/@55.8728174,-4.2922074,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x488845d470a6e505:0x8176da8dac40d836!2m2!1d-4.2866407!2d55.8665765!1m5!1m1!1s0x4888443401909a55:0x92db22e8f11beba0!2m2!1d-4.2765689!2d55.879035!3e2?entry=ttu

[barnflatwyngarde]

Excellent photograph showing the building where Jemima MacDonald's body was found.
Once again, it is noticeable just how much risk the killer was taking in committing murder in such a closely built up area.

I don't think it has been uploaded before.

I am still trying to locate other photos of Mackeith Street.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The Legend of Barney Thomson is a good one.

The Barrowlands and surrounding area feature, as well as some Bridgeton spots close to Mackeith St.

I haven't seen the film, but I remember some streets being closed when they were shooting and hearing that Emma Thompson was in town.

That one is on there. I just looked at some of the stills. I wonder if there are any older ones though that might capture some of the locations?

[Ms Diddles]

Or asked him if he wanted to go dancing.

[Ms Diddles]

Neither did I. It’s a great site though. I wonder if there are any old films set in Glasgow which might show footage of some relevant BJ locations?

The Legend of Barney Thomson is a good one.

The Barrowlands and surrounding area feature, as well as some Bridgeton spots close to Mackeith St.

I haven't seen the film, but I remember some streets being closed when they were shooting and hearing that Emma Thompson was in town.

[barnflatwyngarde]

If only you had asked him which team he supported, eh Barn?!

Or asked him if he wanted to go dancing.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Casual misogyny is certainly a feature of these police documents, a world where a woman who 'likes male company' (don't most women?) segues into 'promiscuity.' The blanket statement about the Gowan sisters- that 'all three are promiscuous' - can hardly have been thoroughly checked for accuracy. The character of the women is constantly implied by attributing two possible surnames by which they were known; this was a legal nicety used in sheriff courts when sentencing prostitutes and carried a serious social stigma at the time. The tabloid newspaper equivalent at the time was 'attractive divorcee.'

No doubt the police could claim they were seeking to avoid ambiguity by referencing these names, just as referencing that some had children to more one father might be some sort of motive for their murder. But it does not read like that today and I doubt it did at the time. Jemima McDonald had three children and we are offered the less than crucial information that one father was a Yugoslav whilst another was from the Caribbean. The third child's father was presumably a Glaswegian so he is not deemed worthy of mention- although unlike the others he was most likely still living in the area! This casual racism includes mention of Patricia Docker having 'affairs with Greek Cypriots' whilst in Cypress.

So I can see why Audrey Gillan is highlighting the social lens through which the murders were investigated, and how it may have hindered the inquiry. After all, none of these women were killed by a 'foreigner.' Everything points to their having met their death at the hands of a fellow Glaswegian. And if they were as free with their favours as the police believed, that was surely not the reason they were killed: they were killed because they refused the sexual advances of a sexual maniac, not because they welcomed his advances.

Very good post cobalt.

It echoes my sentiments entirely.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Flash Gordon was filmed in the Highlands??!!!!

I had no idea!!

Neither did I. It’s a great site though. I wonder if there are any old films set in Glasgow which might show footage of some relevant BJ locations?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Jemima McDonald had three children and we are offered the less than crucial information that one father was a Yugoslav whilst another was from the Caribbean. The third child's father was presumably a Glaswegian so he is not deemed worthy of mention- although unlike the others he was most likely still living in the area!.

Her eldest girl, Elizabeth, was 11 and had a Yugoslav father but I think that both of her sons, Andrew (8) and Alan (7) were by a black West Indian man called Elridge Motley (I can’t recall if that’s the correct spelling)

[Ms Diddles]

It’s this site Ms D

https://www.reelstreets.com/films/sparrows-cant-sing-2/

It’s brilliant.

Flash Gordon was filmed in the Highlands??!!!!

I had no idea!!

[Ms Diddles]

Well, I know that John Templeton was always very polite, always very well turned out and certainly spoke in a way that you wouldn't normally expect from an attendant.

Apologies if the above comment smacks slightly of social stereotyping.

If only you had asked him which team he supported, eh Barn?!

[cobalt]

Casual misogyny is certainly a feature of these police documents, a world where a woman who 'likes male company' (don't most women?) segues into 'promiscuity.' The blanket statement about the Gowan sisters- that 'all three are promiscuous' - can hardly have been thoroughly checked for accuracy. The character of the women is constantly implied by attributing two possible surnames by which they were known; this was a legal nicety used in sheriff courts when sentencing prostitutes and carried a serious social stigma at the time. The tabloid newspaper equivalent at the time was 'attractive divorcee.'

No doubt the police could claim they were seeking to avoid ambiguity by referencing these names, just as referencing that some had children to more one father might be some sort of motive for their murder. But it does not read like that today and I doubt it did at the time. Jemima McDonald had three children and we are offered the less than crucial information that one father was a Yugoslav whilst another was from the Caribbean. The third child's father was presumably a Glaswegian so he is not deemed worthy of mention- although unlike the others he was most likely still living in the area! This casual racism includes mention of Patricia Docker having 'affairs with Greek Cypriots' whilst in Cypress.

So I can see why Audrey Gillan is highlighting the social lens through which the murders were investigated, and how it may have hindered the inquiry. After all, none of these women were killed by a 'foreigner.' Everything points to their having met their death at the hands of a fellow Glaswegian. And if they were as free with their favours as the police believed, that was surely not the reason they were killed: they were killed because they refused the sexual advances of a sexual maniac, not because they welcomed his advances.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Am I right in thinking that it’s pronounced Hoik?

Yeah, but it looks weird spelt like that.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think it's Hawick Street.
If you check on Google Street View there is a Kelso street just off it.
The council tended to use themes when naming streets, so to have two streets next to one another named after Border towns seems logical.

Am I right in thinking that it’s pronounced Hoik?