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  • For me, the most inexplicable thing the parents did - and admitted - was to go out again the following evening, after Madeleine had asked her mum over breakfast why she hadn't come when she and her little brother were crying the night before. What were the parents thinking? The children were in unfamiliar surroundings and Madeleine had clearly expected to be comforted when waking in the night. So I have to wonder how fully or truthfully Kate responded to her daughter's question, if at all:

    Q : Mummy, why didn't you come when we cried for you last night?

    A : I didn't know. I couldn't hear you because I wasn't there. We were having dinner as usual with our friends, in the restaurant the other side of the swimming pool.

    Q : Will you be going out again tonight?

    A : Yes, but you know where we'll be and it's not far away. If you wake up again before we come back, please try not to cry, because we won't hear you and you might wake the twins.

    Or did Kate just shrug off the question without offering any explanation or reassurance? How could she have given any reassurances in the circumstances? In any event, did it not dawn on Kate or Gerry that any one of the children could very well wake again that evening, wanting their mum, and be even more distressed by the same lack of response? Worse than that, one could set off the other two howling, or Madeleine could get out of bed to fetch mum and dad, only to find them missing. How frightening would that be for a child of her age? Kate said she would have known where they were, but the idea that she could have ventured out in the darkness via the swimming pool to find them, just doesn't bear thinking about. Best case scenario would be staying put, too afraid to leave or unable to open the patio doors by herself. The regular checks, just to listen out for crying, were not enough if there was any chance of an older child being able to get out of bed and wander off.

    So... if the children were given something to help them sleep - and to stay asleep - the McCanns might have expected to enjoy their meal out in relative peace and with a clear conscience that the kids wouldn't wake and get upset this time. Understandably they were hardly likely to admit it. But the irony is that a lurking predator would also have been able to take full advantage of the fact that all three of them were out for the count, lifting Madeleine from her bed and carrying her off with relative ease. If anything was going to put off this opportunist abductor, it would have been three tiny tots yelling their heads off!

    Another irony is that Gerry had remarked pessimistically, at the start of their holiday, that he wasn't there to enjoy himself. And boy, did that turn out to be an understatement! I do remember what it was like to go abroad with a baby and then a toddler, and I used to describe it as less like a holiday and more like just a change of scenery. It was still full-on 24 hour parenting, and we chose to do without nannies or babysitters. So in that context Gerry's remark made perfect sense to me. Yet he then did his best to enjoy himself anyway, with catastrophic consequences.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


    Comment


    • Caz, I believe Maddie complained of waking to find her parents out, and in response the parents gave her and the twins sedatives the next night to avoid a repeat of that incident. Of this I have very high confidence.

      The sedatives did NOT cause death (overdose on nearly all sedatives and even sleeping pills is almost impossible unless you're trying).

      However, these sedatives may have either:

      a) Allowed an intruder to easily take Madeleine without any of the children (including Maddie herself) stirring.

      Or

      b) Contributed to Madeleine falling behind the sofa (sedatives such as Valium have strong muscle relaxant properties).

      ---

      It may also be unrelated to what happened, but the children being sedated I am quite certain of. Just look at the twins, Kate claims to have been screaming in the very same room, not once did they stir. They were out cold on sedatives.

      Comment


      • Sadly, I suspect that's the most plausible explanation, WWH. Maybe they thought that sedating the kids would be the kinder option all round, when the alternative was to risk one of them waking and crying again in vain. And not going out at all would have resulted in two very grumpy parents for the rest of the holiday.

        You wouldn't leave your most precious valuables in an unlocked property, and then disable the burglar alarm for fear of it going off accidentally and causing a nuisance to everyone. And your insurance would be null and void if you did, because it would be considered your responsibility if the worst happened. I understand the argument that the thief is still the criminal and should be the one who gets punished, but in the case of leaving young children alone in an unlocked apartment, unable to wake or make a sound in the event of an emergency, the parents will be punishing themselves for a lifetime by giving the worst kind of criminal an opportunity they might not otherwise be willing or able to take.

        Love,

        Caz
        X
        Last edited by caz; 01-23-2020, 03:17 PM.
        "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


        Comment


        • Originally posted by caz View Post
          Sadly, I suspect that's the most plausible explanation, WWH. Maybe they thought that sedating the kids would be the kinder option all round, when the alternative was to risk one of them waking and crying again in vain. And not going out at all would have resulted in two very grumpy parents for the rest of the holiday.

          You wouldn't leave your most precious valuables in an unlocked property, and then disable the burglar alarm for fear of it going off accidentally and causing a nuisance to everyone. And your insurance would be null and void if you did, because it would be considered your responsibility if the worst happened. I understand the argument that the thief is still the criminal and should be the one who gets punished, but in the case of leaving young children alone in an unlocked apartment, unable to wake or make a sound in the event of an emergency, the parents will be punishing themselves for a lifetime by giving the worst kind of criminal an opportunity they might not otherwise be willing or able to take.

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          Hi Caz and WWH
          to me the most telling thing that points to the parents, and its somewhat subtle and not emphasized enough, is that when kate realizes Maddie is gone she immediately leaves the apartment to go back to the restaurant, leaving the twins unattended. Not in a million years.
          apparently she assumes an abductor right off, what with the woosh of the door and the window being open.
          so shes going to leave the twins alone, thinking that an abductor/s was responsible and could still be nearby and possibly after the other babies as well?!? cmon.

          and similarily while the investigation is still going on and theres still hope, BOTH parents are going to leave and go home. give me a break. they did it ands it not even that much of a mystery to me.

          the only remaining question is why what happened? I think the dosing has something to do with it and I agree they probably over/dosed her to keep her from waking up again and crying out. she died and or was murdered in that apartment, jerry took her body away probably down to the ocean and dumped her, they staged the apartment to look like a break in (but screwed up initial interview with police by saying they locked up-oops!) then went to dinner hoping someone else would discover her missing on their rounds.

          I don't rule out at all that she was abused/killed manually either pre planned intentionally or in a fit of rage. I could see a scenario where they were trying to put her to sleep, dosed her shes being loud not going to bed and shes beaten to death, on or near the couch perhaps.
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • https://www.richplanet.net/richp_genre_menu.php?gen=99
            Write something...

            Comment


            • what is this link to? not working
              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                what is this link to? not working
                It's a link to a conspiracy theorist podcast. The McCann case is covered in one of the eps I see on that list.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by WallaceWackedHer View Post

                  It's a link to a conspiracy theorist podcast. The McCann case is covered in one of the eps I see on that list.
                  thanks WWH
                  what a bunch of hogwash. the only possible kernel of truth is that perhaps one of the mccanns was a pedophile and abusing Maddy.
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • Wow, what a link. Has this guy not solved the Whitechapel Murders yet?
                    Them's the vagaries.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                      Wow, what a link. Has this guy not solved the Whitechapel Murders yet?
                      No need. I'm already all over it!

                      Martyn
                      Write something...

                      Comment



                      • Abbby, some of RDH's conclusions re McCann are based on the work of Peter Hyatt.

                        Google him and look for his text analysis books on Amazon.

                        He worked with and trains the FBI on these techniques. Heard of the FBI?

                        Martyn
                        Last edited by mpriestnall; 01-23-2020, 09:43 PM.
                        Write something...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mpriestnall View Post
                          Abbby, some of RDH's conclusions re McCann are based on the work of Peter Hyatt.

                          Google him and look for his text analysis books on Amazon.

                          He worked with and trains the FBI on these techniques. Heard of the FBI?

                          Martyn
                          can you please sum up the conspiracy theory in a nutshell?
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                            Hi Caz and WWH
                            to me the most telling thing that points to the parents, and its somewhat subtle and not emphasized enough, is that when kate realizes Maddie is gone she immediately leaves the apartment to go back to the restaurant, leaving the twins unattended. Not in a million years.
                            apparently she assumes an abductor right off, what with the woosh of the door and the window being open.
                            so shes going to leave the twins alone, thinking that an abductor/s was responsible and could still be nearby and possibly after the other babies as well?!? cmon.

                            and similarily while the investigation is still going on and theres still hope, BOTH parents are going to leave and go home. give me a break. they did it ands it not even that much of a mystery to me.

                            the only remaining question is why what happened? I think the dosing has something to do with it and I agree they probably over/dosed her to keep her from waking up again and crying out. she died and or was murdered in that apartment, jerry took her body away probably down to the ocean and dumped her, they staged the apartment to look like a break in (but screwed up initial interview with police by saying they locked up-oops!) then went to dinner hoping someone else would discover her missing on their rounds.

                            I don't rule out at all that she was abused/killed manually either pre planned intentionally or in a fit of rage. I could see a scenario where they were trying to put her to sleep, dosed her shes being loud not going to bed and shes beaten to death, on or near the couch perhaps.
                            Hi Abby,

                            These days it seems to me that what the parents did wrong was to inadvertently create the perfect conditions for any lurking predator. If on foot, such a person would not have been able to take the twins in addition to the pretty little blonde girl he may well have admired during the day - although I take your point about Kate leaving the twins alone again to raise the alarm about Madeleine. I guess it was a combination of panic and the need for speed. How quick or easy would it have been for Kate to grab her two sleeping toddlers and take them with her to alert Gerry?

                            As is well known, these creatures go wherever there are kids who may not be as closely supervised as they are in their own home environment. Very possibly monitoring the movements and routines of the various families on holiday with their young children, an opportunist predator would have concentrated on the softer targets and kept an eye out for the best opportunity offered. Kate said Madeleine was very tired that night, and we know the twins slept soundly, regardless of whether or not they were all given sedatives. An abductor would not have known either way, of course, but would have been presented with an absolute gift on finding all three sound asleep in that apartment with no adults in sight.

                            The temptation could have been overwhelming, and he'd have been away on his toes in no time at all. If he had a vehicle a bit further away, he could have put a considerable distance between himself and the holiday complex before the alarm was even raised. Like you, I fail to understand how both parents could have come back to the UK when they did, with their daughter still missing. But how long would any of us consider long enough to remain in Portugal, searching for a child who could have been taken within hours to another country entirely, in the event she was still alive? She's still missing today, isn't she, and life has to go on after all.

                            Love,

                            Caz
                            X



                            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                            Comment


                            • Kate didn't have to leave the apartment to call for help, you could see the tapas bar from the apartment lmao.

                              Though panic is a funny thing. I don't attach much to it.

                              I'm sure the kids were "very tired" alright, after mummy and daddy's special supplements (though these meds did NOT kill Maddie directly).
                              Last edited by WallaceWackedHer; 01-24-2020, 02:26 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by caz View Post

                                Hi Abby,

                                These days it seems to me that what the parents did wrong was to inadvertently create the perfect conditions for any lurking predator. If on foot, such a person would not have been able to take the twins in addition to the pretty little blonde girl he may well have admired during the day - although I take your point about Kate leaving the twins alone again to raise the alarm about Madeleine. I guess it was a combination of panic and the need for speed. How quick or easy would it have been for Kate to grab her two sleeping toddlers and take them with her to alert Gerry?

                                As is well known, these creatures go wherever there are kids who may not be as closely supervised as they are in their own home environment. Very possibly monitoring the movements and routines of the various families on holiday with their young children, an opportunist predator would have concentrated on the softer targets and kept an eye out for the best opportunity offered. Kate said Madeleine was very tired that night, and we know the twins slept soundly, regardless of whether or not they were all given sedatives. An abductor would not have known either way, of course, but would have been presented with an absolute gift on finding all three sound asleep in that apartment with no adults in sight.


                                Love,

                                Caz
                                X


                                Hi caz
                                Thanks for the response.

                                These days it seems to me that what the parents did wrong was to inadvertently create the perfect conditions for any lurking predator. If on foot, such a person would not have been able to take the twins in addition to the pretty little blonde girl he may well have admired during the day - although I take your point about Kate leaving the twins alone again to raise the alarm about Madeleine. I guess it was a combination of panic and the need for speed. How quick or easy would it have been for Kate to grab her two sleeping toddlers and take them with her to alert Gerry?

                                exactly. any parents first instinct would be to grab the twins (especially if there first thought was abduction) and call out/look for Maddie in the immediate area of inside the apartment calling out her name and then expanding that outside through the open door where she could have gone. Kates first response is to leave the twins running out screaming to the restaurant going all the way back Maddie been taken! I don't buy it, no way no how. she could have easily scooped up the twins as you said while doing this and any normal innocent parent would.


                                As is well known, these creatures go wherever there are kids who may not be as closely supervised as they are in their own home environment. Very possibly monitoring the movements and routines of the various families on holiday with their young children, an opportunist predator would have concentrated on the softer targets and kept an eye out for the best opportunity offered. Kate said Madeleine was very tired that night, and we know the twins slept soundly, regardless of whether or not they were all given sedatives. An abductor would not have known either way, of course, but would have been presented with an absolute gift on finding all three sound asleep in that apartment with no adults in sight
                                .

                                That all sounds well and good and logical Caz, but how many children have you heard get abducted on family holidays? No, overwhelmingly children are abducted from there homes, on their way back from school, out at a park, etc-either from their home or close to it. Ive never even heard of a case where a child is abducted on holiday/vacation in this type of situation. The sad fact is that the overwhelmingly number of children who go missing and murdered its from a parent/ family member/friend.

                                But I agree with you IF she was abducted the dum ass, selfish, heartless parents are also to blame. Leaving two babies and a three year old alone night after night?!? In a strange land and apartment with the doors unlocked? Even when one said just that morning-why didnt you come when we cried?why they weren't at least charged with neglect is beyond me.

                                The temptation could have been overwhelming, and he'd have been away on his toes in no time at all. If he had a vehicle a bit further away, he could have put a considerable distance between himself and the holiday complex before the alarm was even raised. Like you, I fail to understand how both parents could have come back to the UK when they did, with their daughter still missing. But how long would any of us consider long enough to remain in Portugal, searching for a child who could have been taken within hours to another country entirely, in the event she was still alive? She's still missing today, isn't she, and life has to go on after all.
                                don't buy it. at the very least-kates takes the twins back and the husband stays there. Yes life goes on for them as they profit off the situation, but not for Maddie does it?
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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